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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Nootropics   Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:41 pm

There's been a lot of turnover here lately. Anyone interested in nootropics?

I just started back on Piracetam and Mucuna Pruriens, which at least in the US are considered supplements. In some other countries Piracetam is prescribed as a treatment for Parkinson's disease (and MP is more of a "folk remedy" for Parkinson's). Not having Parkinson's disease myself, the idea is to improve brain function that started as at least "normal."

So... don't take me as a medical authority of any sort, but that's what I'm doing and these are legal supplements, though not super well known.

Anyone else interested in this stuff or other supplements?

As far as other supplements go, I tend to take vitamins, flax seed oil, omega-3, etc -- the specifics vary at any given time and I take breaks. Most of my personal interest in supplements targets trying to be smarter, specifically.

Also... though I'm no medical authority... I thought I should add a warning. I'm comfortable with racetams because they're virtually impossible to overdose on and hurt yourself. That's not necessarily true of all other supplements/drugs identified as "nootropics."

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:04 pm

Trying to be smarter? Do more math. Lots of math. Make yourself math drills. Your brain activity will go up at an alarming rate. That's the best way to become smarter and think faster, I think.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:07 pm

Mental exercise has been proven to increase brain capacity -- I've never heard of it being specifically isolated to math, though. I personally guess it's more like (physical) exercise where you see the greatest improvement in exactly the sort of thing you do the most.

Taking Piractam and then sitting around all day waiting for "the smarts" to just happen wouldn't be a very realistic expectation.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:26 am

www.lumosity.com


Play the math storm!!
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:44 am

Hmmm...

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:34 pm

Interesting idea... will it maintain current iq levels or improve them? have they?
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:43 pm

Basic IQ is not the best metric to go by. Intelligence is a combination of things but basically it comes down to the big three. One, the ability to absorb information. Two, the ability to organize memory for efficient recall. Three, the ability to make connections between myriad pieces of information.

Improve any of these and you have an overall increase in what people think of as intelligence.

Most chemical nootropics enhance your ability to ignore distractions while absorbing new information which makes it easier to do so.

One of the hot points in brain research now is neuroplasticity, the ability of the physical brain to alter and adapt to create new brain maps in response to stimulus.

For a long time it was thought that the brain became more or less fixed in adulthood. Recent research indicates that this is far from true. The brain is capable of assembling and disassembling neuronal networks practically at need, even well into senior years. There is a very good book by Norman Doige called, The Brain That Changes Itself. Anyone interested in brain-work should look it up.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:47 pm

SkyMan wrote:
Interesting idea... will it maintain current iq levels or improve them? have they?



It takes about two weeks to build up in your system and then it's purported to basically make you think a little faster. It's very difficult to measure. Last time I noticed I was slightly happier, which isn't even supposed to happen.

Because of the placebo effect it's also pretty hard to say "okay, this is exactly what it does and how much." Even if it has no effect at all, the placebo effect would result in a slight improvement -- especially since I don't personally know for sure that it has no effect.

It's no "Flowers for Algernon" or "Limitless" type transformation, though.

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:49 pm

There's also virtually no level of toxicity to piracetam, which is why I'm willing to experiment with it.

Of course anything could kill you by sheer volume at some point.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:51 pm

have you tried the Lumosity yet?

The differences that I am noticing are:

my eyes dart all over MUCH more and it has
no stressful feeling.
The "pictures" in my head have MUCH sharper edges
and, when I go out to the living room and ask,
"what did I come out here for?" I am getting clear answers
MOST of the time.


If I skip a day, it feels a bit blurry

like not brushing teeth feels mossy
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:58 pm

No... I've been working unusually long hours this week. Actually just about to head home. All I did so far was look at the web site.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:17 pm

k
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The Reverend

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:14 am

i read flowers for algernon every year and im no smarter than i was 10 years ago . but treatment for parkinsons , interested
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:15 am

I don't think any of this stuff acts on parkinson's specifically... it's just that people usually do it when they've lost some capability.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:11 pm

I did a big ol' study of brain exercise and again last year.
It was VERY exciting!
Much of the stuff applies to all brains.

I use the same techniques for the little kids and the teens.



As to parkinson's, when the heart is strong enough to pump blood through the brain,
it helps a LOT.
That means cardio, my darlings.

Also, muscles weaken after four days of rest for EVERYone.
Shriveled muscle is NOT aging.

LIFT THOSE WEIGHTS!
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:10 pm

I was considering taking Phenylpiracetam soon, it is 30-60x stronger than piracetam, and has other qualities that give you a physical advantage as well; which is why it is banned by the world doping agency. I have also considered taking it with aniracetam to make it more effective and focused.
Phenylpiracetam is currently used by the Russians as a treatment (both over the counter and prescription) for ADHD as well as giving their astronauts on the international space station heightened stamina, intellect, and health due to its ergogenic properties.
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:19 pm

a lot of the time, what you really need is sleep, food and exercise
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:20 pm

I have all of those, but it wouldn't help to have an edge with a better metabolism, focus, and memory.
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:25 pm

agreed but the basics get ignored so often that I just chime in.

YAY for doing the good stuff!
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:27 pm

I have to, after all I am training in several martial arts at a time and have Bruce Lee and Batman as idols; so I have to train until I am at their level (eventually)
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:10 am

Good to see you here, Owl!

Regarding math drills: Kawashima's studies indicated via PET that doing simple math drills rapidly activates more of the brain relative to meditation, reading, slowly doing simple calculations or doing difficult calculations slowly.

That said, enhancing language skills have been shown to decrease the symptoms and onset of neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. It is also noted that people who study languages and/or do crossword puzzles regularly are at a lower liability for neurodegenerative diseases.

Lumosity seemed a little overpriced to me, so I went with a lifetime membership at Braingymmer. So far, so good.

The problem with dietary suppliments is that, although the research says their "safe," the research is often very poorly done. As there is no FDA imposed standard for research, suppliment companies often conduct their own research and present particularly skewed data. Also, follow-up and long terms studies are very rarely done. At this point, we're pretty sure that there's a very low liability for overdose, but the long term impact is still unknown.

It might be safe...but we can't be sure of it just yet. We'll have to wait and watch for bad results among current takers a few years down the line.

My other problem with nootropic compounds is that the brain tends to become reliant on anything it no longer needs to produce. Neural downregulation occurs in an effort to reestablish homeostasis in the brain. I can't guarantee that I will always be taking this compound, and I'd hate to lose any gains I've made chemically. I'd also hate to have to keep taking this substance for fear of rebound effects. Creating new circuitry through exercises, however, is a reliable means of making longer lasting change.

-Rook
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:16 am

Honestly, I don't completely trust the FDA in a capitalist-driven health care system.
If there was a $5 cure for cancer, I guarantee the FDA would overlook it in favor of the more profitable Cancer Treatments. Likewise, the pills I am looking at are favored in many other parts of the world, mainly Europe, Canada, and Russia; all of who have declared it safe enough to not just be prescription; but over the counter as well.
But in order to make sure I am as healthy and safe as possible, I ALWAYS consult my physician and/or psychiatrist for medical advice.
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:05 pm

Piracetam has been around and popular as a nootropic long enough that the info you can find about it doesn't reflect any particular company's point of view. Online most of it comes from people who take or have taken it.

Not selling it -- I'm just saying.

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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:10 pm

It is also one of the weakest, Pramiracetam is longer lasting, stronger, andharder to build a resistance to. Along with that, because it stays in your body (lipid soluable) it has a lingering effect even after it is out of your system. I would love to combine it with phenylpiracetam and see what happens, since they are both so effective.
Do you have any experience with either Eon?
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PostSubject: Re: Nootropics   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:24 pm

I remember seeing infomercals for this kind of stuff. I couldn't mind trying it out. How does one get into taking nootropics? I've been googling iit but not sure what's. The proper suplament to start with.
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