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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:19 pm

Thanks for the info rogue.

I guess diabetes is an illussion too.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:20 pm

Flora types a little crazy, but the things she posts have obvious expertise behind them. If people's attitudes throw you that much.... well, in the long term it's a self-imposed handicap.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:22 pm

Eon my problem with "nutritional science" is that's its always flip flopping and changing. One year some food is a wonder food, the next year it gives you cancer.

Ever since the depression we've been getting fatter and developing more diseases.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:26 pm

I have a lot of issues with it, too... but we can kinda just ignore them.

My main problem with nutritional science in my adult life is that they seem to promote food with half the value removed as being better (calories, fat, etc)... they even charge more for it.

I read those "eat this, not that" things and immediately want to eat the stuff they make fun of.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:36 pm

E0N wrote:
Flora types a little crazy, but the things she posts have obvious expertise behind them. If people's attitudes throw you that much.... well, in the long term it's a self-imposed handicap.
It's mostly the fact that she apparently considers herself always right and everyone else is an idiot. I don't have much respect for people who just slam their opinion in my face and expect me to believe every word because they have 'credentials'. I'll be more than glad to listen when she provides evidence and sources it for her opinions.

UA, hope it helps and feel free to PM me if any any questions. It can get a bit complicated.

~Rogue
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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:38 pm

Dless processed is better, if nature intended food to be bad for you, it would be.

This is why I like the idea of the paleo diet. We live longer these days because of proper medicine, not because profit hungry companies take perfectly good food and load it with wood pulp, bleach and amonia.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:43 pm

don't really appreciate the WRONG WRONG WRONG part. it's really disrespectful. considering you are not with me 24/7, or not me period, you're unaware of how my energy levels are all over the place at the weirdest times of day. sometimes I will want to crash, other times I will want to climb a tree and run a mile. then I'll be super tired again and want to take a nap. while for th most part caffiene has little impact on me, energy drink are virtually useless and regardless of my level of physical activity or my diet, I experience these bizarre highs and lows with my energy levels. it's extremely frustrating. half the time I can't even function like a normal person.

so while I'm no doctor, my body tells me something is amiss.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:45 pm

Medicine is processed...

Sun chlorella isn't even digestable unless you process it first.

There may be something to the paleo diet, but I don't suspect it's a universal truism somehow.

Many times in history people have survived on only processed carbs, but I can't think of any (cultural) instances of surviving on only meat or only fruits and vegetables. That doesn't mean they're perfect, but it does seem like they must have something.

Also, is it really much different -- in practice -- than the Atkin's Diet?

Rogue -- your choice. If you can't hear someone, well, you can't hear them.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:47 pm

Urban Avenger wrote:
so while I'm no doctor, my body tells me something is amiss.



Could be. Since you said you can't get to a doctor, you might try some home remedies for hypothyroidism (there must be some) and if they make you feel better --- well, at the worst case, no harm done.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:51 pm

Check out Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I don't have it so I'm not as familiar with it, but iir it's going between hyper and hypo. Also, get off the caffeine, seriously. Your adrenals are probably damaged too.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:56 pm

Ach... now caffeine is bad for you?



Razz



How do I survive?

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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:57 pm

EON, actually a lot of paleo dieters dismiss the atkins diet cuz its primarily meat based. paleo is primarily vegetarian with meat in it. a lot of fish too (wikld caught, less mercury). and as for home remedies, I've looked into them. there's SO many. like rogue said it gets really complicated. different foods can do different things and vice versa. it's all over the place. some stuff that seems harmless can be detrimental, some things that may seem bad are good and a lot of conflicts with the paleo lifestyle. I'm not 100% paleo by any means but when I look at some of the stuff I "should" take to combat "some" kinds of hypothyroidism, it's a million shades of gray and I don't know what to do. I need to get tested first and foremost, then I can see what I need to do to combat it, if that's the case.

as far as medicine is concerned, yes, I know a lot of is processed, but most of it comes from natural herbal remedies as well. I see your point though.

also, there are lots of untouched tribal civilizations out there, and from what I've seen of them in documentaries and photographs. a lot of them aren't fat.

rogue, I've heard of it. it's a possibility. I haven't had an energy drink in weeks, but sometimes I need the caffeine to function (a lot of it). unless I just want to be a slave to my job, all I would do is sleep and work and sleep and work. so in order to have me time I need to sacrifice sleep sometimes.

I'm just gonna get my blood tested soon.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:57 pm

E0N wrote:
Ach... now caffeine is bad for you?



Razz



How do I survive?

I know right?

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Thyroidism, either way, is not about diet and exercise
and,
since the thyroid is part of the endocrine system,
missing the sleep-factor is very bad.



Rouge, I am a teacher of other teachers.
Are you?

State where you learned your knowledge, please.


State what are the ingredients in which you find poisons
and
exactly which tissues of the body they attack and how.

I can.
I have to for my job.
I have been doing it for decades.
I had articles written just about me and my research
that were published, nationally and all of my things
were examined
by my peers across the nation.
Once one has national press, one is GOING TO BE
ripped apart, in detail, by other professionals
because that is the nature of professional debate.

I have, more than, passed the tests.
This has nothing to do with me and every thing to do with my teachers.


i am a vessel of my teachers.
I was not born with this knowledge.


Here, in DC, most of the people in my classes have, at least one,
PhD (s).


My information is examined by many knowledgeable people, daily.

State where you learned your information
and know that,
unless you can take every thing down to the molecular level and back up to practical, your knowledge is not good enough.

That is what personal trainers and group exercise instructors
have to do.

(Cycle instructors, Pilates instructors, Yoga instructors
and the other, low-level certifications
were given special permission to
forego the molecular-level knowledge to expedite certifications
when it was discovered how many people would pay loads
for stylish stuff and didn't care about the molecular level.
Yes, the Fitness Industry lowered it's standards, a lot,
when Madonna started doing Yoga in order to make a lot lot lot more money.

When I first started, I had 15 years of yoga and martial arts and loads more
of dance and distance running but was told
that, because of all this at the molecular level,
nothing about yoga, martial arts or dance can be tolerated
because it has nothing to do with, even the slightest,
understanding of what the body, actually, needs
and they made me learn every thing from scratch
at the molecular level and would not let me share even one thing about all my extensive martial arts and yoga knowledge.

That went on for seven years - me, hiding my yoga and martial arts practices in private,
while teaching exercise precisely
until Yoga was all the craze and I became and super star
{until 9-11 took me out of the news} sigh.

in 2005, I went WAY beyond all that and have created
some masterpieces that are a, pure, result of my teachers.)

Your link covers only one idea and misses basics
that skew the state and application.


Evidence of your low level of knowledge
is the paragraph that discusses sugar-as-addiction
and discusses candy and desserts as "maybes" and "just fine sometimes".


This is not evidence of an understanding of
the ingredients, how they behave in the blood stream and
the extreme differences created once significant muscle
is maintained on the skeleton
and the unguessable features of brain-chemistry.



I do not type crazy.
I do not have teachers who merit your, uninformed, snub.


No one is paying you for knowledge.

MANY people pay them and are given certifications for the
acquisition of the knowledge.
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Rogue




PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:14 pm

Urban Avenger wrote:
E0N wrote:
Ach... now caffeine is bad for you?



Razz



How do I survive?

I know right?

I used to drink absurd amounts of it in college, enough that I physically cannot handle much anymore, but like UA, I get tired and need a boost so I drink it. I'm slowly trying to get myself off it for good. I'm down to one cup of coffee/tea a day, at most. More than that I feel like I just got a shot of adrenaline, and not in a good way. It's not bad for people who are otherwise healthy, but it can hurt people with thyroid and adrenal problems really bad, and I've been consuming caffeine like it's water for half my life. Off the top of my head, try astragalus, rhodiola, or ashwaganda. They're adaptogenic herbs and come in supplement pill forms or teas. Other than that there's not much home remedy type stuff you can do. Those help with stress on the adrenals. It took me months to sort through and get a decent grasp on diet and exercise with thyroid problems. If I get some time I might try to type up a crash course for you, if you'd like? I can give references too so you can use that for your own further research.

Make sure you get the tests done that you need. Most doctors suck when it comes to this, honestly, and won't test everything you need. You'll also likely get overlooked for having a problem because you're a younger male who otherwise seems in good health.

~Rogue
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:16 pm

E0N wrote:
Ach... now caffeine is bad for you?



Razz



How do I survive?




Eon, your input about mac and cheeze and Lavash is
right on target.

Thank you!

Caffeine is bad if you use it to replace meals or sleep
or, if you consume too much.

It is a drug that lasts six hours.

So, if you drive home from work
and have caffeine at 8 AM and are sleepy after 2 PM,
you are a danger to the rest of us
and, it would be prudent for you to have caffeine at 2:30- PM, please.


Caffeine restricts the absorption of chemicals in the brain.

So, when you go past, about, eight hours from the last caffeine dose,
the brain floods these chemicals back in
and THAT causes the caffeine-withdrawal-headache.

Being a lazy burden on others
because your knowledge about caffeine is bad is not my favorite thing.

IF you consume caffeine, please, do all that you can for your sleep,
do not drink more that two doses at once, and consume
six hours later, one or two, if you are doing a standard sized "day".

Also, consuming more caffeine past the original dose
does nothing but further adds to your liquid-intake if you choose a liquid does of caffeine.
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:17 pm

Urban Avenger wrote:
EON, actually a lot of paleo dieters dismiss the atkins diet cuz its primarily meat based. paleo is primarily vegetarian with meat in it. a lot of fish too (wikld caught, less mercury). and as for home remedies, I've looked into them. there's SO many. like rogue said it gets really complicated. different foods can do different things and vice versa. it's all over the place. some stuff that seems harmless can be detrimental, some things that may seem bad are good and a lot of conflicts with the paleo lifestyle. I'm not 100% paleo by any means but when I look at some of the stuff I "should" take to combat "some" kinds of hypothyroidism, it's a million shades of gray and I don't know what to do. I need to get tested first and foremost, then I can see what I need to do to combat it, if that's the case.

as far as medicine is concerned, yes, I know a lot of is processed, but most of it comes from natural herbal remedies as well. I see your point though.

also, there are lots of untouched tribal civilizations out there, and from what I've seen of them in documentaries and photographs. a lot of them aren't fat.

rogue, I've heard of it. it's a possibility. I haven't had an energy drink in weeks, but sometimes I need the caffeine to function (a lot of it). unless I just want to be a slave to my job, all I would do is sleep and work and sleep and work. so in order to have me time I need to sacrifice sleep sometimes.

I'm just gonna get my blood tested soon.





No matter the style, food is:
protein, carbs, fat
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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:19 pm

I like it, but I also use it to replace sleep... another year and I'll stop. At least I know it's bad. Razz

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:21 pm

E0N wrote:
I like it, but I also use it to replace sleep... another year and I'll stop. At least I know it's bad. Razz

and, as far as we can tell, you aren't exhibiting a lot of problems.
You are wise and can use knowledge
practically.

( I have to ask)
Do you drive tired?

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:22 pm

Brain-chemistry does not stop is influence
when you ignore it.

That is one thing that I do not see
in any of this.


I typed it up last year...

sigh.



Might we sticky these so that I don't keep having to fork over loads of time, please?
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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:28 pm

Flora V. Arbor wrote:
E0N wrote:
I like it, but I also use it to replace sleep... another year and I'll stop. At least I know it's bad. Razz

and, as far as we can tell, you aren't exhibiting a lot of problems.
You are wise and can use knowledge
practically.

( I have to ask)
Do you drive tired?


During the work week there are three days especially that make it difficult for me to get sufficient sleep -- it has to do with fitting in a workout for a large group of people while accomodating a school schedule. So I'm caught in catch up mode on sleep... until I'm done with this and my schedule changes.

I drive tired, but not exhausted, and that's just talking about commutes -- I don't set out on road trips or voluntary things tired. No accidents in a few decades here. (EDIT - ever... a few decades is my driving history)

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Rogue




PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:13 pm

Flora V. Arbor wrote:


Rouge, I am a teacher of other teachers.
Are you?
No, I didn't realize I had to teach other teachers to know something.

State where you learned your knowledge, please.
Books. I have a brain and know how to use it. I have a BA from a good school and know how to think and do research. You don't need an MA or PhD to know something. I can't afford a graduate degree at the moment, so I do a lot of research to find good books, look at well respected scholars' work to find where they get their information, and study on my own.

State what are the ingredients in which you find poisons
and
exactly which tissues of the body they attack and how.
I'm pretty sure this would be about book length, so no. I would be more than willing to find some books that do already cover this and have that be my answer.

I can.
I have to for my job.
I have been doing it for decades.
I had articles written just about me and my research
that were published, nationally and all of my things
were examined
by my peers across the nation.
Once one has national press, one is GOING TO BE
ripped apart, in detail, by other professionals
because that is the nature of professional debate.
Can I read any of these? I'd be very interested in seeing your research.


State where you learned your information
and know that,
unless you can take every thing down to the molecular level and back up to practical, your knowledge is not good enough.
I can maybe look up every book and article I ever read, but I'm not sure. I don't keep a list.

Your link covers only one idea and misses basics
that skew the state and application.
Given my own personal experience and millions of others, I thoroughly disagree. Yes, I realize I'm taking a stand that's contrary to what most doctors think on this subject. I also don't know a single person who did well when they listened to these doctors. However, a lot of people have had success with alternative doctors, or those who research deeper in to things.

Evidence of your low level of knowledge
is the paragraph that discusses sugar-as-addiction
and discusses candy and desserts as "maybes" and "just fine sometimes".
I'm starting to get confused. Are you saying we should be eating high-sugar foods like candy (M&Ms, Butterfingers, Snickers, etc) and desserts (pie, cake, brownies, etc) since it's not addictive?

No one is paying you for knowledge.

MANY people pay them and are given certifications for the
acquisition of the knowledge.
Nobody here is paying anyone for knowledge. Does that mean we should all pay each other for input? I don't see how this is relevant.

Now that I've answered all your questions to the best of my ability, could you please provide references to articles or books so that I can get a clearer idea of where you're coming from? I work at a library so finding any of it shouldn't be a problem for me. And could we please focus on an exchange of publicly verified information (as in, articles and books available to the public, not just your own word - no offense intended by this. It's just if I ever talk about this to someone I'd rather be able to say "Here's a publicly respected source so you can verify the info I'm giving you" instead of "Someone on the internet told me"). I don't doubt your credentials, but I don't ever accept something like this at face value. I would also really appreciate it if you would stop considering me as an imbecile who knows nothing just because I go off of different research than you. I'm an adult. Please treat me like one. The least you can do is be respectful to me and my opinions, which I hope I've been able to do to you. If not, I apologize. It's not my intention to be disrespectful.

~Rogue
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:39 pm

Rogue wrote:
Flora V. Arbor wrote:


Rouge, I am a teacher of other teachers.
Are you?
No, I didn't realize I had to teach other teachers to know something.

IN NUTRITION, EITHER YOU STUDY OR ARE A VICTIM OF NEWSPAPERS

State where you learned your knowledge, please.
Books. I have a brain and know how to use it. I have a BA from a good school and know how to think and do research. You don't need an MA or PhD to know something. I can't afford a graduate degree at the moment, so I do a lot of research to find good books, look at well respected scholars' work to find where they get their information, and study on my own.


A DEGREE IN WHAT?


State what are the ingredients in which you find poisons
and
exactly which tissues of the body they attack and how.
I'm pretty sure this would be about book length, so no. I would be more than willing to find some books that do already cover this and have that be my answer.


PERSONAL TRAINER CERTIFICATION MANUAL
WWW.ACEFITNESS.ORG

I can.
I have to for my job.
I have been doing it for decades.
I had articles written just about me and my research
that were published, nationally and all of my things
were examined
by my peers across the nation.
Once one has national press, one is GOING TO BE
ripped apart, in detail, by other professionals
because that is the nature of professional debate.
Can I read any of these? I'd be very interested in seeing your research.

THIS WOULD REQUIRE REVEALING MY IDENTITY


State where you learned your information
and know that,
unless you can take every thing down to the molecular level and back up to practical, your knowledge is not good enough.
I can maybe look up every book and article I ever read, but I'm not sure. I don't keep a list.



STATE IF YOU USE NEWSPAPERS, MAGAZINES OR BOOKS.
STATE THE TITLES OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT BOOKS.


Your link covers only one idea and misses basics
that skew the state and application.
Given my own personal experience and millions of others, I thoroughly disagree. Yes, I realize I'm taking a stand that's contrary to what most doctors think on this subject. I also don't know a single person who did well when they listened to these doctors. However, a lot of people have had success with alternative doctors, or those who research deeper in to things.


DOCTORS DO NOT STUDY HEALTH.

"PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" IS CALLED "ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE"

Evidence of your low level of knowledge
is the paragraph that discusses sugar-as-addiction
and discusses candy and desserts as "maybes" and "just fine sometimes".
I'm starting to get confused. Are you saying we should be eating high-sugar foods like candy (M&Ms, Butterfingers, Snickers, etc) and desserts (pie, cake, brownies, etc) since it's not addictive?


IF YOU STATE THAT SUGAR IS TERRIBLE BUT STATE THAT DESSERTS ARE FINE NOW AND THEN,
YOU HAVE CONTRADICTED YOURSELF.
DESSERTS, REALLY, SHOULD ONLY BE DISCUSSED IN TERMS OF INGREDIENTS


No one is paying you for knowledge.

MANY people pay them and are given certifications for the
acquisition of the knowledge.
Nobody here is paying anyone for knowledge. Does that mean we should all pay each other for input? I don't see how this is relevant.


PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY TO GET INFORMATION FROM ME AND OTHER PROFESSIONALS.
THEN, WE GET OR GIVE A CERTIFICATE TO STATE THAT A PERSON HAS
ACQUIRED SAID CONTINUING EDUCATION.

IF YOU ARE JUST QUOTING A NEWS PAPERS OR MAGAZINES, YOUR LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE
IS THAT OF GOSSIP.





Now that I've answered all your questions to the best of my ability, could you please provide references to articles or books so that I can get a clearer idea of where you're coming from? I work at a library so finding any of it shouldn't be a problem for me. And could we please focus on an exchange of publicly verified information (as in, articles and books available to the public, not just your own word - no offense intended by this. It's just if I ever talk about this to someone I'd rather be able to say "Here's a publicly respected source so you can verify the info I'm giving you" instead of "Someone on the internet told me"). I don't doubt your credentials, but I don't ever accept something like this at face value. I would also really appreciate it if you would stop considering me as an imbecile who knows nothing just because I go off of different research than you. I'm an adult. Please treat me like one. The least you can do is be respectful to me and my opinions, which I hope I've been able to do to you. If not, I apologize. It's not my intention to be disrespectful.

~Rogue

WWW.NUTRITIONDIMENSION.COM HAS TEXTBOOKS THAT YOU CAN BUY.

THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE IN THE LIBRARY, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, BECAUSE THE INFO IS FOR LEARNING
AND TESTING.

YOU MAY BE AN ADULT BUT, LIKE MANY PEOPLE, YOU SHOW NO UNDERSTANDING OF FOOD BEYOND
GENERAL STYLE.


FOR STUDYING THE BODY ITSELF:
GET SEVERAL TEXT BOOKS. NOT ONE HAS ENOUGH.

FOR STUDYING THE CHEMISTRY BASICS: { YOU CAN FIND THAT }

FOR STUDYING atp AND cp: GENERAL EXERCISE SCIENCE MANUALS WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU SEEK

FOR STUDYING BRAIN-CHEMISTRY: GET SEVERAL TEXTBOOKS

FOR STUDYING EXERCISE: GET THE ACE PERSONAL TRAINER'S MANUAL




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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:40 pm

E0N wrote:
Flora V. Arbor wrote:
E0N wrote:
I like it, but I also use it to replace sleep... another year and I'll stop. At least I know it's bad. Razz

and, as far as we can tell, you aren't exhibiting a lot of problems.
You are wise and can use knowledge
practically.

( I have to ask)
Do you drive tired?


During the work week there are three days especially that make it difficult for me to get sufficient sleep -- it has to do with fitting in a workout for a large group of people while accomodating a school schedule. So I'm caught in catch up mode on sleep... until I'm done with this and my schedule changes.

I drive tired, but not exhausted, and that's just talking about commutes -- I don't set out on road trips or voluntary things tired. No accidents in a few decades here. (EDIT - ever... a few decades is my driving history)


YAY! you know how i worry!

arrive alive!
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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:50 pm

Flora V. Arbor wrote:

PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY TO GET INFORMATION FROM ME AND OTHER PROFESSIONALS.
THEN, WE GET OR GIVE A CERTIFICATE TO STATE THAT A PERSON HAS
ACQUIRED SAID CONTINUING EDUCATION.

IF YOU ARE JUST QUOTING A NEWS PAPERS OR MAGAZINES, YOUR LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE
IS THAT OF GOSSIP.
If the information isn't free then you can't really blame people for being ignorant. But hey, that's just my opinion, I hate the idea of needing money to learn things.
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