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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:01 am

The paleo thing is helping actually with my energy levels. As for protien and the like, fat is actually good for you. There's this thing called rabbit starvation or something. Rabbit is so lean is virtually has no fat on it and you lose out on vital lipids. Or something like that.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:14 am

your body doesn't care what words are in your mind.

What you put in your mouth for food is ONLY
protein, carbs or fat.


Carbs, on an empty stomach make you sleepy

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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:15 am

Ohhhkay.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:22 am

So, the ONLY thing that you need for good eating is:

exact protein every four hours, about 100 calories of carbs per hour
until the next meal depending on your size and activity level,
a little bit of fat and fiber.


There is nothing else that matters.
Every thing else is JUST style and makes NO difference to your body.


Please, what are you eating on a regular basis and when?
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Rogue




PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:26 am

Flora V. Arbor wrote:
Rouge, this, that you share, is simplistic stuff from
newspapers...sensational, personal, low in science
and designed to sell papers.



"Addiction to sugar" is the most egregious.


"Addiction" is for non-nutritional things like tobacco.
I disagree. Here's a link to an interview at Princeton about it, and then the study the man published on it. While more studies do need to be done to have definitive evidence, it's certainly not sensational, personal, or low in science, and there is a lot of evidence that it can be addictive.

Flora V. Arbor wrote:

Please, name the proteins that you crave
I don't crave any in particular. Typically I'll eat peanut butter if I'm in a hurry, but otherwise I'll just make sure to have a lot of protein at whatever meal is next. I try to eat a variety of things, so I eat eggs, beans, meats, and nuts, particularly almonds. I eat farm fresh eggs, grass fed meats, properly raised chicken and their eggs, whole nuts or at least unprocessed nut butters, so I know I'm not just getting protein, I'm getting quality protein.

Of course you can't eat just protein, just like you can't eat just carbs, or just fats, or just any one single thing. You'll end up starving or at the very least malnourished. Maybe one reason I don't crave carbs and fats is because I get enough of them.

~Rogue
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:01 pm

I have seen all of this stuff about sugar and find it to be pathetic.

They are motivated by hatred of fatness.

Starving people would LOVE some sugar and they would be fine.
They would NOT be fine with a big pile of alcohol.

Much of the proteins that you list here are VERY high in fat.

Please, state what you CRAVE not what you choose to eat.

You stated that you crave protein.

What you TRY to eat is not the same as a craving.

Please, state what you crave.

When I get an extra minute, I will type up why these studies on sugar are drivel...well-funded drivel.

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Rogue




PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:07 pm

If I crave anything it's what I listed, but I rarely think "Eggs would be wonderful right now." I just know I need protein so I get what's healthiest in my opinion. I have a feeling we're going to have to agree to disagree, but I do look forward to your response on the study.

- Rogue
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Vulpo

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:46 pm

I usually crave candy... Just sayin'.
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:46 pm

Well as for what I eat, its fairly inconsistent. But I usually try and get a big salad and some chicken. Sugar isn't bad, neither is carbs, but whatever I don't burn up turns to fat. I've got some serious love handles going on, but that seems to be about where I'm my fattest honestly. It bugs the hell out of me. And also sugar tends to cause me to crash. I had a mcfrappe yesterday morning and I wanted to pass out. Very frustrating. Sleep seems to have no impact on my energy levels, whether I sleep 6 hours or 9 hours I feel no more or less rested. But I do know when the body has no sugar or carbs externally to burn off, it burns off the fat in your body, hence weight loss. So usually my diet consists of vegetables, chicken, fruit and some junkie things thrown in here and there. Maybe a small treat once a day or every other day. But I've almost totally eliminated fast food.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:52 pm

Rogue wrote:
If I crave anything it's what I listed, but I rarely think "Eggs would be wonderful right now." I just know I need protein so I get what's healthiest in my opinion. I have a feeling we're going to have to agree to disagree, but I do look forward to your response on the study.

- Rogue

State how much protein the average adult needs every day.
State how much is absorb-able each meal.
State how much protein is in peanut butter and other nuts butters.

If you cannot do this without looking it up, then, you are not
knowledgeable enough to debate this subject.

I am a personal trainer and provider of continuing education for
other personal trainers.
I have been studying nutrition, not just one college course,
professional on-going education for already-educated - not beginner -,
professionals, since 1994.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:57 pm

As far as craving proteins -- spiced fish/seafood and beef or pork with a lot of fat on the edges. Not constantly, but those are generally the only protein rich foods I feel literal cravings for.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:58 pm

Urban Avenger wrote:
Well as for what I eat, its fairly inconsistent. But I usually try and get a big salad and some chicken.
WHY DO YOU CHOOSE THIS? I WOULD NEVER EAT LIKE THIS

Sugar isn't bad, neither is carbs,
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "SUGAR" AND "CARBS"?

but whatever I don't burn up turns to fat.
WRONG.

I've got some serious love handles going on, but that seems to be about where I'm my fattest honestly.

PLACEMENT OF STORAGE IS NOT WORTH DISCUSSING.

It bugs the hell out of me.
YOU NEED MORE EXERCISE

And also sugar tends to cause me to crash.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHY * WITHOUT GUESSING?

I had a mcfrappe yesterday morning and I wanted to pass out. Very frustrating.

Sleep seems to have no impact on my energy levels,
CORRECT DAMMIT!

I TYPED THIS UP LAST YEAR.
EITHER YOU DIDN'T BOTHER TO READ IT,
YOU DON'T CARE
OR YOU FORGOT.

I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME!

I GAVE YOU exactly WHAT YOU NEED FOR THIS!


whether I sleep 6 hours or 9 hours I feel no more or less rested. But I do know when the body has no sugar or carbs externally to burn off, it burns off the fat in your body, hence weight loss.

WRONG

So usually my diet consists of vegetables, chicken, fruit and some junkie things thrown in here and there. Maybe a small treat once a day or every other day. But I've almost totally eliminated fast food.


EVEN THOUGH I TOLD YOU WHAT YOU EAT, HOW MUCH AND WHEN
YOU STILL FLOP ABOUT WITH NEWSPAPER KNOWLEDGE

SIGH




Please see responses, above, in caps.

I am not shouting.

This is the fastest way that I can respond
with my VERY EXPENSIVE knowledge
while i am TRYING TO GET OUT TO WORK
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:07 pm

I can't just "eat protien" every 4 hours. I eat when I can, which also isn't very often. I also can't really make the time to exercise more often.

And if carbs don't make you fat, then why does the carb heavt standard american diet make so many americans... Fat? Obesity is a huge problem in america.

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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:10 pm

Case in point actually, I dated a girl who was a "vegetarian" .but she didn't really eat vegetables, but she ate a lot of carbs, mac n cheese, pasta. But rarely ever any protien or vegetables. She was fat.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:12 pm

the current trend in obesity is NOT from one source.


1. genetic alterations due to the Great Depression
2. a staggering lack of exercise
3. low nutritional knowledge

TOGETHER.


Please, UA, type when you CAN eat and when you CAN exercise
and I'll design a program for you
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:12 pm

If we want to type about vegetarians, let's make a different thread, please
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:22 pm

Here is an example of pathetic:


Studies were funded to study "sugar in soda and children"

(with out adding ANY exercise to the children's days.)


The FACT that phosphorous in soda dissolves bones
was, completely, ignored.

They only care that the fruits of THEIR loins are
embarrassing the parents by being fat.

The FACT the soda is WAAAAAY off the charts in salt-content...completely
ignored
because they found a question
and
are SURE that they already know the answer.

So, they are ONLY trying to prove THAT answer.

They are BLIND to any other info.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A "study" is one question that a bunch of researchers convince
someone with money to pay for.

If any other questions come up along the way,
those need a different study and different funding
which may or may not happen.

Studies are at the mercy of the minds of the people with the money.

So, there is lots of funding for "Why is my kid embarrassing me by being fat"
and
very little money for studies for:
"How do I find time for significant amounts of exercise to do with my child".

( those tend to be published as "suggestions" in fitness periodicals and are written by someone like me and NOT funded - ACE begs for volunteers to do this ).

So, saying that a "study" is "scientific" or "done at Princeton" means
nothing.

The ONLY data that can be examined for real information is:

* what was the question that was asked?
* who funded the study?
* what questions arose from the study?

and then, we find dough for the next questions.



When I get back, I will find some time to show you the giant
holes in this garbage called "sugar is addictive".
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Rogue




PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:50 pm

Flora V. Arbor wrote:
State how much protein the average adult needs every day.
- It depends on the person and how much they weigh. A 260 lb. muscle man is going to need more than a 110 lb. petite old lady. It's typically 1g per pound of body weight.
State how much is absorb-able each meal.
- I've heard 30, and 40, and 25. I've also heard that it doesn't matter, you absorb it all. There's a lot of conflicting information.

State how much protein is in peanut butter and other nuts butters.
- My peanut butter is 8g for 2 tablespoons. I've never bought other nut butters so I don't know. Unless you count Nutella...

If you cannot do this without looking it up, then, you are not
knowledgeable enough to debate this subject.
- Good, shall we continue then?


I am a personal trainer and provider of continuing education for
other personal trainers.
I have been studying nutrition, not just one college course,
professional on-going education for already-educated - not beginner -,
professionals, since 1994.
I have a lot of health conditions because I'm just lucky like that. I learn about this stuff because I HAVE TO. If I want to feel healthy, or heck somedays even if I just don't want to feel like death warmed over, I have to know about this stuff. While I like to talk about this stuff to others and help others learn more about nutrition, ultimately my research is for myself, so I don't feel like an 80 year old when I'm only in my 20s.

Urban Avenger wrote:
Case in point actually, I dated a girl who was a "vegetarian" .but she didn't really eat vegetables, but she ate a lot of carbs, mac n cheese, pasta. But rarely ever any protien or vegetables. She was fat.

Yep. Mac n' cheese is just slow suicide. However, carbs aren't the only thing that's making people obese. It's the hybrid and GMO carbs. You don't really see the bread-centered French being obese. It's also all the soft drinks and other things that are just plain refined white sugar.

Flora V. Arbor wrote:

A "study" is one question that a bunch of researchers convince
someone with money to pay for.

If any other questions come up along the way,
those need a different study and different funding
which may or may not happen.

Studies are at the mercy of the minds of the people with the money.

So, there is lots of funding for "Why is my kid embarrassing me by being fat"
and
very little money for studies for:
"How do I find time for significant amounts of exercise to do with my child".

( those tend to be published as "suggestions" in fitness periodicals and are written by someone like me and NOT funded - ACE begs for volunteers to do this ).

So, saying that a "study" is "scientific" or "done at Princeton" means
nothing.

The ONLY data that can be examined for real information is:

* what was the question that was asked?
* who funded the study?
* what questions arose from the study?

and then, we find dough for the next questions.
Agreed. Everyone has an agenda, and you need to look at who wants this research done, but so does everyone who wrote a textbook or teaches a class. You have to believe someone at some point. Obviously at some point you have believed something because otherwise you wouldn't be so well educated.

Also, I want to clarify that when I'm talking about sugar, I mean the crappy white refined stuff, and even the brown unrefined stuff. I do not mean sugar found in fruits and the like. That's good. I do mean the stuff found in soft drinks (along with a ton of other horrible things - really, they should be outlawed), candies (Sorry Double Helix!), etc. Desserts, in moderation and prepared with healthy versions of food and not fake substitutes, can be ok for most people. There's nothing wrong with having a piece of pie or cake every once in awhile, but having a Snickers and a Mt. Dew after you pick up McD's at 10pm isn't. That is what's making America obese.

~Rogue
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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:03 pm

What's with all the hating on mac n' cheese?

Here are two useful recipes that include it:

http://frugalliving.about.com/od/maincourses/r/Hoover_Stew.htm

http://frugalliving.about.com/od/maincourses/r/Gorge.htm

It's just pasta and cheese.

White sugar won't kill you, either.

It's amazing we exist at all, since our ancestors subsisted on all this deadly poison.

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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:03 pm

That's exactly what I'm saying rogue.

I also suspect I may have hypothyroidism. Several of my complaints fall under symptoms of hypothyroidism. And there's a million ways it can affect people. However, a lack of health insurance prevents me from really getting it checked out.

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:04 pm

Seriously, white sugar is a useful ingredient in a lot of stuff. Lavash, for instance.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:04 pm

Rogue wrote:
Flora V. Arbor wrote:
State how much protein the average adult needs every day.
- It depends on the person and how much they weigh. A 260 lb. muscle man is going to need more than a 110 lb. petite old lady. It's typically 1g per pound of body weight.
State how much is absorb-able each meal.
- I've heard 30, and 40, and 25. I've also heard that it doesn't matter, you absorb it all. There's a lot of conflicting information.

State how much protein is in peanut butter and other nuts butters.
- My peanut butter is 8g for 2 tablespoons. I've never bought other nut butters so I don't know. Unless you count Nutella...

If you cannot do this without looking it up, then, you are not
knowledgeable enough to debate this subject.
- Good, shall we continue then?


I am a personal trainer and provider of continuing education for
other personal trainers.
I have been studying nutrition, not just one college course,
professional on-going education for already-educated - not beginner -,
professionals, since 1994.
I have a lot of health conditions because I'm just lucky like that. I learn about this stuff because I HAVE TO.

LEARNED WHERE?

If I want to feel healthy, or heck somedays even if I just don't want to feel like death warmed over, I have to know about this stuff.

YOU CAN BE SUED FOR GIVING ADVICE IF YOU ARE NOT CERTIFIED ( AND CAN, EVEN IF YOU ARE. )

While I like to talk about this stuff to others and help others learn more about nutrition, ultimately my research is for myself, so I don't feel like an 80 year old when I'm only in my 20s.

Urban Avenger wrote:
Case in point actually, I dated a girl who was a "vegetarian" .but she didn't really eat vegetables, but she ate a lot of carbs, mac n cheese, pasta. But rarely ever any protien or vegetables. She was fat.

Yep. Mac n' cheese is just slow suicide.

NO. IT IS NOT.
WE LIVE THREE TIMES AS LONG AS OUR ANCESTORS DID.
WE ARE VERY VERY LUCKY AND VERY VERY LONG-LIVED



However, carbs aren't the only thing that's making people obese. It's the hybrid and GMO carbs. You don't really see the bread-centered French being obese. It's also all the soft drinks and other things that are just plain refined white sugar.


ARE YOU NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND GENETICS?



Flora V. Arbor wrote:

A "study" is one question that a bunch of researchers convince
someone with money to pay for.

If any other questions come up along the way,
those need a different study and different funding
which may or may not happen.

Studies are at the mercy of the minds of the people with the money.

So, there is lots of funding for "Why is my kid embarrassing me by being fat"
and
very little money for studies for:
"How do I find time for significant amounts of exercise to do with my child".

( those tend to be published as "suggestions" in fitness periodicals and are written by someone like me and NOT funded - ACE begs for volunteers to do this ).

So, saying that a "study" is "scientific" or "done at Princeton" means
nothing.

The ONLY data that can be examined for real information is:

* what was the question that was asked?
* who funded the study?
* what questions arose from the study?

and then, we find dough for the next questions.
Agreed. Everyone has an agenda, and you need to look at who wants this research done, but so does everyone who wrote a textbook or teaches a class. You have to believe someone at some point. Obviously at some point you have believed something because otherwise you wouldn't be so well educated.

NO. YOU DO NOT "BELIEVE" AND BECOME CERTIFIED.
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "ESTABLISHED FACTS"
THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH "BELIEF"
AND THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE THE ESSENCE OF "STUDIES".



Also, I want to clarify that when I'm talking about sugar, I mean the crappy white refined stuff, and even the brown unrefined stuff.

YOU ARE A "D" STUDENT IN THIS WHOLE PARAGRAPH.

1. WHAT IS THE "BROWN UNREFINED STUFF"
IT IS WHITE SUGAR WITH MOLASSES POURED ON TOP.
ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WHITE SUGAR AND THE BROWN SUGAR IS only
A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT IS IN MOLASSES

I do not mean sugar found in fruits and the like. That's good. I do mean the stuff found in soft drinks (along with a ton of other horrible things - really, they should be outlawed),

"D" STUDENT. THERE IS not A "TON" OF STUFF IN SODA.
THERE IS SUGAR, WATER, PHOSPHORUS, SALT AND only a few OTHER INGREDIENTS
NONE OF WHICH IS KILLING ANYONE.

candies (Sorry Double Helix!), etc.

YO HAVE DISCUSSED SUGAR ABOVE AND ARE TYPING "CANDIES"
AS IF "CANDY" IS A SEPARATE SUBJECT FROM "SUGAR.


Desserts, in moderation and prepared with healthy versions of food and not fake substitutes, can be ok for most people.

DESSERTS ARE WHAT?

STATE EXACTLY WHAT IS IN "DESSERTS".



There's nothing wrong with having a piece of pie or cake every once in awhile, but having a Snickers and a Mt. Dew after you pick up McD's at 10pm isn't. That is what's making America obese.


WRONG. BODY BUILDERS - EVEN THE ONES WHO DON'T DO STEROIDS =
WILL EAT, EXACTLY, THIS BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF MUSCLE IS WHAT IS DIFFERENT.


IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND NOTHING ELSE, UNDERSTAND THESE"

1. FOOD IS [b]only
PROTEIN FAT CARBS

IT IS nothing ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UNTIL YOU CAN DISCUSS FOOD AS only THESE INGREDIENTS, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

2. GROWING LARGE MUSCLES AND DOING CARDIO IS THE SECRET THAT YOU SEEK[/b]



~Rogue

State where you learn from

I dont' have time for more but, please, read the caps added above
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:04 pm

Urban Avenger wrote:
That's exactly what I'm saying rogue.

I also suspect I may have hypothyroidism. Several of my complaints fall under symptoms of hypothyroidism. And there's a million ways it can affect people. However, a lack of health insurance prevents me from really getting it checked out.

WRONG WRONG WRONG
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Rogue




PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:14 pm

Flora, until you can respond to me in a sensible, adult, and respectful manner, I won't be responding to you. I'm sorry we weren't able to learn from each other more.

Urban Avenger wrote:
That's exactly what I'm saying rogue.

I also suspect I may have hypothyroidism. Several of my complaints fall under symptoms of hypothyroidism. And there's a million ways it can affect people. However, a lack of health insurance prevents me from really getting it checked out.

Check out this website then: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ It honestly changed my life. I wish I had found it 8 years ago when I was dx with hypothyroidism instead of just last year. There's also a good facebook group called Stop the Thyroid Madness. And even without insurance, you can order your own blood tests. Between the site and the facebook group there's a lot of information that can help you sort through the lab results. Please, check it out though. My body is pretty much a total wreck because I went so long without being properly treated for it. It is the main reason I'm not an active RLSH yet. You can have the best car around, fill it up with gas, and everything in proper working order, but if your engine is broke, ya ain't going anywhere.

~Rogue
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PostSubject: Re: The Paleo Diet   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:17 pm

Whatever.

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