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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 12:05 am

Johndoh, from what I understand, there was a struggle, and the gun went off accidentally, which is far wprse.

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JohnDoe




PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 12:06 am

Nice to see you back in the forums Avenger.
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 12:10 am

Thanks.

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the crimson fist

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 1:32 am

Does his gun not have a safety?
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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 5:12 am

Leviathan wrote:
Urban Avenger wrote:
I can't imagine some trailer trash joining the army. Ever.

And eon is an inetergalactic ninja. I saw his license.

I didn't say Beesting was trailer trash, I said I couldn't imagine trailer trash (guy on motorcycle) getting the shotgun away from (not trailer trash) Beesting, a trained Iraqi war Army veteran. I'd so like to get Beestings' side of this when he gets out. There's more than the police report and the park owner and the shitbag on the bike is letting on. Two of the reports have been contradicted by the ones who released their own version of the facts (owner and bike guy)

As a VETERAN who rides a motorcycle and lives in a MOBILE HOME I find this condescending as hell...How do you know this guy who is two year older than Bee Sting isn't a fricking SEAL team member? Just because he rides a motorcycle and lives in a mobile home doesnt mean he's a worthless piece of crap...and just because someone went to Iraq doesnt mean they have major ninja like combat skills...even the people who cook for the troops are considered COMBAT VETERANS when they get out...It assumes a lot to think that the biker guy is less capable of combat than the guy in the mask with the shotgun simply because one claims to be a combat veteran and the other lives in a trailer.

And for the record...I had a coworker who died in a motorcycle accident several years ago...He was a former Navy SEAL and he lived in - you guessed it - a mobile home...and I guarantee you that if her were alive today, HE could take a gun away from someone without a second thought.

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Midnite Detective

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 8:37 am

E0N wrote:
Starman wrote:
If you're carrying a gun, how about you don't load it? It gives the impression it's loaded, so there's still the obvious intimidation of a gun pointed at you, but without the mortal danger?

This is Hollywood type stuff. The only thing someone should ever try to do with a gun, except practice shooting, is kill someone. If you don't feel like it's justified to kill someone -- don't use the gun.
'

if you get nothing from this entire Bee Sting incident and still wish to pack a firearm LISTEN TO WHAT EON WROTE THERE.

never underestimate how stupid people are. even with a gun barrel pointed at them.
many people have died because it Just Doesn't Register with some people that hey it's a gun he could shoot me. me? nah, i won't get shot.
hell is filled with morons like this.

if it's not loaded it's an awkward club. the moron that would normally get killed because he's too stupid to recognize his own mortality might just pull a knife and test how fast you can shoot. and you can't because it's just an awkward club, not a loaded weapon.

throw drugs, alcoholism, crazy, and women and things get even more crazy stupid dangerous.
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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 8:38 am

Crossfire the Crusader wrote:
Leviathan wrote:
Urban Avenger wrote:
I can't imagine some trailer trash joining the army. Ever.

And eon is an inetergalactic ninja. I saw his license.

I didn't say Beesting was trailer trash, I said I couldn't imagine trailer trash (guy on motorcycle) getting the shotgun away from (not trailer trash) Beesting, a trained Iraqi war Army veteran. I'd so like to get Beestings' side of this when he gets out. There's more than the police report and the park owner and the shitbag on the bike is letting on. Two of the reports have been contradicted by the ones who released their own version of the facts (owner and bike guy)

As a VETERAN who rides a motorcycle and lives in a MOBILE HOME I find this condescending as hell...How do you know this guy who is two year older than Bee Sting isn't a fricking SEAL team member? Just because he rides a motorcycle and lives in a mobile home doesnt mean he's a worthless piece of crap...and just because someone went to Iraq doesnt mean they have major ninja like combat skills...even the people who cook for the troops are considered COMBAT VETERANS when they get out...It assumes a lot to think that the biker guy is less capable of combat than the guy in the mask with the shotgun simply because one claims to be a combat veteran and the other lives in a trailer.

And for the record...I had a coworker who died in a motorcycle accident several years ago...He was a former Navy SEAL and he lived in - you guessed it - a mobile home...and I guarantee you that if her were alive today, HE could take a gun away from someone without a second thought.

I am sorry to say that I have had personal experiences years ago when I used to live in a trailer. Druggies, drunks, guys on motorbikes and dirtbikes revving up at all hours of the night. The combat vets I did meet who lived in the same park, never let themselves dip that far into the hole. Obviously, there's some shake room for mental illness and shell-shock. But I make no excuses for mailbox mommies with three babies from five different daddies who blame everyone but themselves for getting pregnant and expecting a burgeoning system to take care of their needs. Or the crack addict who steals for his own habit from so called friends, but fails at maintaining work and paying his bills. Everyone has a choice... some choose poorly.

Should have been more specific in my own statements, but there it is. There is a difference between guy who lives in a trailer (keeps it clean, has a bit of propriety, tries to better his lot in life honestly) and trailer trash(drunk, late on the rent, total mess) and someone who would have been so openly defiant such as the guy on the motorcycle and belligerent and disruptive to the neighborhood falls under the second category. I could clearly use the same statement to cover some of my previous renters.

Forgive the mis-communication. But to say that I don't know, assumes quite a bit in itself.
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Midnite Detective

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 8:40 am

Urban Avenger wrote:
E0N, if you plan on staying in CA, open carry is illegal now. CCW or nothing.

i always find this to be...... confusing. why ban open carry, hell its a deterrant? are they worried about cops getting nervous and shooting the owner? frankly i'd like to know who has a gun.
just so... wrong.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 11:52 am

Tom Carter rides a motorcycle, but there is absolutely no evidence he was revving it unnecessarily, causing a disturbance. No complaint was filed by neighbors. Mr. Carter doesn't live in the trailer park, but in a house in a nice looking neighborhood not far from his girlfriend, who lives in the trailer.
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Proteus

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 2:35 pm

Gauge wrote:
Tom Carter rides a motorcycle, but there is absolutely no evidence he was revving it unnecessarily, causing a disturbance. No complaint was filed by neighbors. Mr. Carter doesn't live in the trailer park, but in a house in a nice looking neighborhood not far from his girlfriend, who lives in the trailer.

This...

I hear a lot of assumptions being made about one side or the other and, much like in the Trayvon Martin case (yes, I went there) It's detracting from the basic, bottom line truth - Bee Sting brought out a shotgun, the result of which caused a struggle in which the weapon was discharged. THAT SIMPLE FACT negates what conditions the victim lives in, whether he had a military past or lives on welfare. Hell, it even negates whether or not he was revving his motorcycle unnecessarily. Bee Sting's actions endangered both his AND Mr. Carter's life as well as whoever else was within the line of fire.

You can argue till you're blue in the face over what these two were like, but facts are facts, and that fact is indesputabe. Allowing your personal prejudices into it only clouds an issue that is otherwise black and white.
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 02, 2012 2:54 pm

Proteus wrote:
Bee Sting brought out a shotgun, the result of which caused a struggle in which the weapon was discharged. THAT SIMPLE FACT negates what conditions the victim lives in, whether he had a military past or lives on welfare. Hell, it even negates whether or not he was revving his motorcycle unnecessarily. Bee Sting's actions endangered both his AND Mr. Carter's life as well as whoever else was within the line of fire..

THIS. it doesn't really matter what kind of person either of them are. THAT is the bottom linr.

Bee Sting fucked up, end of story.

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Idea Man

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Mon May 07, 2012 1:53 pm

There have been no new donations since I added mine. No
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Mon May 07, 2012 2:26 pm

As I mentioned in a recent thread: It is of the utmost importance to ensure that we are able to maintain a distinct line (or lines) between what aspects of this project are "fantasy" and which aspects are "reality".

It's situations like this that remind us of imperative necessity to tread with responsible caution when dispensing our perceptions of "Justice".

**keeps fingers crossed to not be stuffing her foot in her mouth about this anytime in the future**

Best prayers to Bee Sting. I hope that he is able to fundamentally resolve his internal differences in a healthy and constructive manner soon. I love you



~HS. :>


Last edited by hiddensparrow on Mon May 07, 2012 2:27 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : grammar fix.)
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Polarman

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Tue May 08, 2012 4:07 pm

I am very glad that nobody was hurt in all of this Now I think that because the shot came from Bee Sting's own gun which went off and hit a trailer Bee Sting should pay for the damages to it However I agree that Masks and weapons never mix which is why Even if I were American instead of Canadian I wouldnt carry any guns knives or other weapons at all The best Weapon is knowing how to difuse a situation before it gets worse

This actually reminds me of a time when I was down in Ontario back in summer of 2002 at a Motel with my family We were all woken up about 1 am by a guy shinning large spotlights through our windows and shouting at us through the loud speakers on the back of his truck Turns out that he didnt realise that his girlfriend was evicted just before we took over the room My family was really scared however the manager got on the phone and called the cops and then gave everyone an extra night free of charge
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Gadgetastic!



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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 09, 2012 1:09 am

What I would like to see come from this is a major upsurge in RLMS focusing on coming up with innovative non-lethals.
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 09, 2012 10:26 am

Gadgetastic! wrote:
What I would like to see come from this is a major upsurge in RLMS focusing on coming up with innovative non-lethals.

RLMS ?
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 09, 2012 10:55 am

Mad scientist?

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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 09, 2012 1:06 pm

Urban Avenger wrote:
Mad scientist?


Right, it clicked now.


Apologies, I'm a little slower than usual, these days.




Thanks,




~HS. :>
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 09, 2012 4:25 pm

The only potential trouble I can see with non-lethal devices is that they could still appear, to many people, to be very lethal. A masked person whipping out a gadget of any kind that resembles a lethal weapon will create undue panic in a public setting. If the gadgetry is very obviously not a conventional weapon, the effect may diminish to some degree, but discretion is key in deploying ANY tool. I won't even pull out a Kleenex unless it's necessary to do so.
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 09, 2012 4:29 pm

Typically when I feel like I may need to pull out my stun gun, I will arm it, but not actually draw it until it has to be used or someone is in the process of attacking me, or has already attacked me. The other night a pretty rauckus individual was causing a lot of problems in the gaslamp, even getting into a fight with one guy, but I never actually needed to pull out my stun gun. The police eventually handled it while we monitored the situation.

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Wed May 09, 2012 11:32 pm

I think that is where the comic book style comes in. If you are walking down the street and see some dude in common clothing whip out a funky looking device with blinking lights, the response would most likely be, "BOMB!" But if you see a dude in a superhero costume with the same device, the likely response would be, "GEEK!" One gets you a visit from Homeland Security. The other gets you a place on a strangers FB page with the caption, "Can you believe this Jackass?" I'll take the latter over the former any day.
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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Thu May 10, 2012 1:18 am

Hopefully I will never have the need to use a weapon on anyone.

I think that carrying things like stun guns around (or even regular guns) just call for people to raise their unconscious flags and send them either into a default flight or fight-mode (neither of which are the ideal scenarios we are preferring to achieve).

If we can find ways to ultimately interact with these individuals peacefully, calmly, with compassion, understanding and acceptable levels of tolerance, then I think that we would be much better off, overall.

Unfortunately I do still acknowledge that there may be an absolute necessity to carry something like a stun gun, but I think that it might be important to obtain a license, first.

Admittedly, I still have to look into the matter of various armed "gear" and their repercussions on various law-abiding environments (i.e. Canada vs. Northern U.S. vs. Central U.S. vs. Southern U.S. regulations).

Today I was successfully able to calmly escort a very drunk man much taller and older than myself off a bus, merely with words and actions alone.

There was not a moment in any part of the interaction where I felt that I would be in immediate need of a taser or any form of defensive item to diffuse the situtation.

All I needed was a calm voice, calm body posture and relaxed gesturing to motion the offender off the bus.

...TBH, the situation kind of reminded me of the apathy that you all have to deal with on your ends on a regular basis.

It was a funny/strange kind of moment.

**reminds self to call bus service control tomorrow to explain the situation in better detail**


Cheers,




~HS. :>








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Instructor

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Thu May 10, 2012 9:28 am

[quote="Midnite Detective"][quote="E0N"]
Starman wrote:


if it's not loaded it's an awkward club. the moron that would normally get killed because he's too stupid to recognize his own mortality might just pull a knife and test how fast you can shoot. and you can't because it's just an awkward club, not a loaded weapon.

throw drugs, alcoholism, crazy, and women and things get even more crazy stupid dangerous.

I am still wading through the thread but this statement grabbed me. Famed Master Dan Inosanto has proven time and time again that within a range of 21 feet the knife is more dangerous than the gun.

http://www.karateforums.com/knife-vs-gun-the-21-foot-rule-vt40771.html
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Midnite Detective

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Thu May 10, 2012 1:02 pm

[quote="Instructor"][quote="Midnite Detective"]
E0N wrote:
Starman wrote:


if it's not loaded it's an awkward club. the moron that would normally get killed because he's too stupid to recognize his own mortality might just pull a knife and test how fast you can shoot. and you can't because it's just an awkward club, not a loaded weapon.

throw drugs, alcoholism, crazy, and women and things get even more crazy stupid dangerous.

I am still wading through the thread but this statement grabbed me. Famed Master Dan Inosanto has proven time and time again that within a range of 21 feet the knife is more dangerous than the gun.

http://www.karateforums.com/knife-vs-gun-the-21-foot-rule-vt40771.html

Yes the 21 foot rule. It's been around for years and thoroughly integrated into training for PD's and others. I've seen a number of police and various combatives training videos and lectures over the years myself.
Based on studies by Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department. The time trials were first published in SWAT magazine in 1983.
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm

Here's an interesting article (part I of II) which takes a closer look at some of the situations and applications of the 'rule', including some damn fine observations and advice.
http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/
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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: bee sting   Thu May 10, 2012 1:51 pm

[quote="Midnite Detective"][quote="Instructor"]
Midnite Detective wrote:
E0N wrote:
Starman wrote:


if it's not loaded it's an awkward club. the moron that would normally get killed because he's too stupid to recognize his own mortality might just pull a knife and test how fast you can shoot. and you can't because it's just an awkward club, not a loaded weapon.

throw drugs, alcoholism, crazy, and women and things get even more crazy stupid dangerous.

I am still wading through the thread but this statement grabbed me. Famed Master Dan Inosanto has proven time and time again that within a range of 21 feet the knife is more dangerous than the gun.

http://www.karateforums.com/knife-vs-gun-the-21-foot-rule-vt40771.html

Yes the 21 foot rule. It's been around for years and thoroughly integrated into training for PD's and others. I've seen a number of police and various combatives training videos and lectures over the years myself.
Based on studies by Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department. The time trials were first published in SWAT magazine in 1983.
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm

Here's an interesting article (part I of II) which takes a closer look at some of the situations and applications of the 'rule', including some damn fine observations and advice.
http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/


This belongs in a training simulation for up and coming capes. Disarming someone with a knife, machete or bat with nails is far different than a perp with a gun.

My question is, with the recent hero arrests, why isn't there a training facility or school for heroes to go to? Sure, we have Zimmer's oracle page and a patchwork of online libraries, but nothing solid where a guy or gal can suit-up in their full gear and do pick&roll while learning their craft.

Camp Hammond was a fictional place, but it applies here too. BEFORE someone kills a schoolyard full of kids while catching a bad guy!
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