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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Selling Out   Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:34 pm

So... I've been trying to estimate around how much a "super team" of six people could make annually if they sold out and monetized themselves, primarily through the mechanism of producing and releasing one video a week with six weeks off each year (total 46)...

[That's only about 3-4 active patroling guys, with the others having skills like research, photography, Adobe After Effects, etc etc]

And I tried to presume the modest steady success that would probably come with steady work, but no amazing breaks like an MTV television show or movie deal (members control the content).

I also presumed that the people involved had some obligation to work other jobs, either full or part time, so this could all be achieved with some serious effort during people's free time.

And every figure is based on examples out there to keep them within an approximately realistic range.

What I came up with was not extremely encouraging.

What do you guys think? Am I missing something? Instead of being insanely lucrative "selling out" adds up to income at or near the poverty line, especially if you factor in taxes and expenses, which I did not.

YouTube Partnership:
- Requires following and original content.
- One new video released each week getting approximately 400,000 views will generate an estimated minimum of $5280 revenue per month or a rough estimate of $60K per year allowing for 46 videos annually.

Private security (events and patrols), Protective Services, Investigations, Surveillance, etc. :
- Estimated annual revenue of $20K; that’s “total,” not “each.”
- This would represent an abysmal failure if the intention was to have a traditional security company business model.

“Rewards for information leading to the arrest of…”:
- Estimated annual revenue of $15K.
- Rewards are offered by various public and private agencies for such things as identifying a particular group of thieves or attributing incidences of animal cruelty to a particular person.
- $15K is a pessimistic figure that doesn’t represent a very high success rate for investigations – only about 20% given 8-10 independently conducted investigations per year.

Associated blog, web site, and sale of non-fiction articles (done for research)
- Blog and web site produce estimated revenue of $2400 per year or $200 per month.
- Non-fiction articles are a natural consequence of research necessary to produce the show and require only slight polishing to be ready for sale.
- Articles are sold via services such as Constant Content, Daily Article, Associated Content, Bright Hub, and Suite 101. Revenue is approximately $7600 per year or more.
- Total estimate revenue is $10K.

Sponsorships, product placements, and product reviews:
- Requires a substantial following.
- Revenue is by commission through vendor affiliate programs and other arrangements (i.e. through companies like Brandfame and Placevine).
- Estimate an additional $10K per year on average allowing for six weeks annually without content (only 46 videos per year).

Sale of original art, clothing, and misc. other products:
- Estimated at $5K annually.

Total estimated income:
- $120K annually or about $20K each if six people are involved, not accounting for taxes, expenses, margin of error, etc.


Also I know this forecast of poverty level income will strike many of you as incredibly mercenary, but keep in mind that the actual "super hero services" are provided to the people who need them for free, except as otherwise specified above. Also note that this would most likely require a minimum of a year of little to no revenue (but definitely some expenses) to even get started up.

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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:39 pm

E0N wrote:
So... I've been trying to estimate around how much a "super team" of six people could make annually if they sold out and monetized themselves, primarily through the mechanism of producing and releasing one video a week with six weeks off each year (total 46)...

[That's only about 3-4 active patroling guys, with the others having skills like research, photography, Adobe After Effects, etc etc]

And I tried to presume the modest steady success that would probably come with steady work, but no amazing breaks like an MTV television show or movie deal (members control the content).

I also presumed that the people involved had some obligation to work other jobs, either full or part time, so this could all be achieved with some serious effort during people's free time.

And every figure is based on examples out there to keep them within an approximately realistic range.

Gotta butt in. Think something like the COPS dvd season set, but with more action. Chasing and tazing a drunk with an axe is more fun when you're wearing spandex and a logo.

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E0N wrote:

What I came up with was not extremely encouraging.

What do you guys think? Am I missing something? Instead of being insanely lucrative "selling out" adds up to income at or near the poverty line, especially if you factor in taxes and expenses, which I did not.

YouTube Partnership:
- Requires following and original content.
- One new video released each week getting approximately 400,000 views will generate an estimated minimum of $5280 revenue per month or a rough estimate of $60K per year allowing for 46 videos annually.

Private security (events and patrols), Protective Services, Investigations, Surveillance, etc. :
- Estimated annual revenue of $20K; that’s “total,” not “each.”
- This would represent an abysmal failure if the intention was to have a traditional security company business model.

“Rewards for information leading to the arrest of…”:
- Estimated annual revenue of $15K.
- Rewards are offered by various public and private agencies for such things as identifying a particular group of thieves or attributing incidences of animal cruelty to a particular person.
- $15K is a pessimistic figure that doesn’t represent a very high success rate for investigations – only about 20% given 8-10 independently conducted investigations per year.

I presented this a while ago, but the oracle project combined with active bounty hunting of warrants may yield better results.

E0N wrote:

Associated blog, web site, and sale of non-fiction articles (done for research)
- Blog and web site produce estimated revenue of $2400 per year or $200 per month.
- Non-fiction articles are a natural consequence of research necessary to produce the show and require only slight polishing to be ready for sale.
- Articles are sold via services such as Constant Content, Daily Article, Associated Content, Bright Hub, and Suite 101. Revenue is approximately $7600 per year or more.
- Total estimate revenue is $10K.

Sponsorships, product placements, and product reviews:
- Requires a substantial following.
- Revenue is by commission through vendor affiliate programs and other arrangements (i.e. through companies like Brandfame and Placevine).
- Estimate an additional $10K per year on average allowing for six weeks annually without content (only 46 videos per year).

Sale of original art, clothing, and misc. other products:
- Estimated at $5K annually.

Total estimated income:
- $120K annually or about $20K each if six people are involved, not accounting for taxes, expenses, margin of error, etc.


Darkhorse Comics could do a series on some of the RLSH. And if I'm not mistaken, I think I saw brief cameos of some of you guys in Kick-Ass 2 #5 recently. Maybe give Millar a call once he does some spinoff work?

E0N wrote:

Also I know this forecast of poverty level income will strike many of you as incredibly mercenary, but keep in mind that the actual "super hero services" are provided to the people who need them for free, except as otherwise specified above. Also note that this would most likely require a minimum of a year of little to no revenue (but definitely some expenses) to even get started up.

In the meantime, Master Legend has gone all Captain Amazing on us, minus the racing suit patches on his jacket. He's turned his image into corporate gold (or at least corporate copper)

But for obvious reasons, some of us can't go mainstream and do stuff in front of the camera. There has to be a head guy for some of that, a known identity guy who can to the facetime thing, act as a shell for mass purchasing and anonymous distribution of uniforms, gear, set up appointments and hand out paycheques.

I'm just sayin...
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The Anomaly

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:19 pm

I could do After Effects and art. Could help get attention with videos and advertisement.
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:19 pm

Youtube gives great opportunities.

I like it
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Proteus

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:49 pm

I know all about the Youtube thing. If you can make partner and produce regular videos, then you are in a position where you will be making substantial money and will be able to "quit the day job" and focus on your pursuits. Here's the catch, though. You have to be marketable.

There are videos that get the required views to qualify for partnership, but they don't earn partner status because they have no shelf life, meaning that people will continue to view the video down the line. You have to develop a well rounded viewership (meaning lots of subscribers) and show a consistent amount of views.

If you can do that, then you are on your way to being able to sell merchandise (I mean if we're gonna talk about "selling out" then lets go the distance) Can't you just see an Eon action figure or collector's cup? Not to mention that, occasionally, YouTube partners manage to get the notice of producers (Solja Boy, Justin Beiber, Fred, Stevie Ryan) and get lifted into the stratosphere (Ok, not so much Fred, but he made two movies for Nickelodeon.....joy)

So basically it is possible to make partner for YouTube and make bunches of monies, but it takes a LOT of work besides making the video (unless you have someone who can handle the online side of it - getting subscribers, promoting you, etc.)and if you're working a 9-5 AND patrolling, it may not be feasible.
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JohnDoe




PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:58 pm

Darn sleep-cycle and the required hours of sleep necessary to stave off insanity.What a Face
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The Jinn

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:34 pm

Selling out is for winners.
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RazorHawk

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:48 pm

The Jinn wrote:
Selling out is for winners.



Thats even funnier with your avatar of the Master next to it. LOL



Out of all the things that Eon posted though, I can agree on the clothing end. I make about 8k a year. Which really isn't much.
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RedLight

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:56 pm

I loathe the thought, but have you thought about pitching it as a reality show? Some producer is bound to eat it up, because it's different. The money will come with a wealth of bullshit at first, but if you go in with a clear head and open eyes, you can turn the tables and take control. Twist it into what you want it to become, but use them to get your foot in the door and some funding.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:21 pm

Technically the concept is a reality show, although nobody likes the phrase. I've written "docudrama" in my drafts of things describing it.

But I know what you mean, like a real reality show on TV. I think it's a bad idea for a bunch of reasons. A couple --

- it would probably not get picked up or not last very long even if it got on the air.
- they'd almost certainly want to focus on interpersonal drama and a kind of "hey, look at these nutjobs" kind of thing.
- it's putting all your eggs in one basket, a single revenue stream that could instantly be shut off for many different unpredictable and uncontrollable reasons.
- the dollar amounts I've heard thrown around for reality shows people were trying to make so far have all been ridiculous, as in exploitive borderline slave wages. For the individuals involved my proposal is incredibly well paying in comparison... Razz
- I'd rather just not make money than put myself in someone else's hands like that, especially with no particular reason to trust them to be fair or to make intelligent decisions -- I mean just personally I could work part time at Burger King and be fine.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:26 pm

animals, homeless people and fights

are all audience-getters
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Max



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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:28 pm

Seems like I vaguely remember somebody trying the reality show angle a year or so ago. Fell through, as I recall.

Razorhawk, you remember what I'm talking about? I think it was a NYC thing.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:43 pm

I think you might mean "Hero House," although it hasn't been the only one. Not to start a long bitter conversation or anything, but that's the source of me saying "slave wages."

And Flora, everything you mention would be very easy to include regularly.

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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:52 pm

Thankyou, EON.



I have learned ot use my camera without too much cussing

and could submit some content.

The feral cats are kinda fun to watch.

They are REALLY candid about which other kitties they love
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Max



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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:31 pm

You're probably right, Eon. I don't remember well enough, myself.
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SkyMan

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:42 pm

EON, have you talked to SuperHero, who doenst want to come back to this place... Rolling Eyes, and Peter Tangen about this thing... the last rumor I heard was that a paid-participant reality tv show was in the works. Dont know if its true or not... I remember PJ turned his deal that was offered back in March down to some of it being staged... and my name was on the shortlist to get on it too! 25k would have been a nice take home... yeah, since its old news I can talk about it now.
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Gadgetastic!



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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:44 pm

The Jinn wrote:
Selling out is for winners.

cheers Yes!

RLSH + Resources = Mega RLSH
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Proteus

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:01 pm

E0N wrote:
I'd rather just not make money than put myself in someone else's hands like that, especially with no particular reason to trust them to be fair or to make intelligent decisions

That right there is the best selling point for YouTube... It's like Indy-television...
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:16 pm

SkyMan wrote:
EON, have you talked to SuperHero, who doenst want to come back to this place... Rolling Eyes, and Peter Tangen about this thing... the last rumor I heard was that a paid-participant reality tv show was in the works. Dont know if its true or not... I remember PJ turned his deal that was offered back in March down to some of it being staged... and my name was on the shortlist to get on it too! 25k would have been a nice take home... yeah, since its old news I can talk about it now.

I haven't discussed this specifically with them or anyone, really, other than this thread. I ran a few potential "plots" by some people for feedback. In ten days I'm going to make a pitch at a conference in LA trying to recruit partners. The idea is that it would be owned by everyone involved, not a deal someone from outside offers. I'm not overly optimistic about the results that will come out of the conference, but we'll see.

At this point the best model I can think of for the money angle is to make some "pilot" episodes with no expectation of profit, hope to progress into everything I described in my initial post, and then some kind of third stage involving a "big magical deal" that would very likely never happen (meaning the deal that would make the whole thing fully sustainable at a reasonable level of income for participants).

I have some very specific ideas for content. A few things would be "staged," but not incidents... just activities to provide footage to string things together into a coherent narrative (i.e. staging some particular training to foreshadow an incident or setting up an area to look like a "war room" for film purposes, even though it's not really necessary in reality... stuff like that). Also with the notion of everyone involved being full partners the final shape it would take is not just what I envisoned, but what 6 or so people can agree on in the future.

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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:20 pm

This (below) was my first draft conceptually... I'm trying to tweak it -- basically rewrite it entirely -- so it doesn't suck as much and also so it will be realistic to take a few weeks off and film around 9 "proof of concept" episodes quickly:

Author Name Available Upon Request

Genre: Docudrama Series

Format: 6-minute weekly episodes delivered via YouTube

Title: “Green Knights”

Logline: Viewers are invited to watch and participate in the ongoing adventures of the Green Knights, a team of real-life superheroes based in Los Angeles.

Synopsis:

(Themes: superheroes, transhumanism, reality games, mysteries, crime prevention, community service)

The LA-based Green Knights explore the boundaries of human potential and emerging technologies in pursuit of their self-appointed mission as costumed superheroes. While the team definitely has a sense of humor, we quickly learn that they take their mission seriously and subject themselves to tough reality-based training in order to be effective.
What kinds of gadgets are actually useful for crime fighting and can be purchased or cobbled together on a reasonable budget? Is it possible to do responsible citizen policing aggressively and efficiently without crossing the line into vigilantism and developing an antagonistic relationship with the police? What are realistic solutions to the problems that plague society, rather than comic book solutions like “punch it in the face”?

These and other questions are answered as the docudrama series unfolds.

In addition the show respects its comic book and pulp fiction roots, often to comedic effect as clichéd superhero situations play out quite differently in the real world. While serious, determined, and skilled, the Green Knights approach their mission with a sense of adventure and an aesthetic that straddles the line between Dieselpunk and Atompunk, harkening back to an earlier less cynical time when people weren’t afraid to do good works without recourse to irony or hipsterism.

Viewer participation is also a crucial element of the series, ranging from appeals to the public to provide specific information that will bring criminals to justice to general explorations of how people can better both themselves and the communities they live in. The Green Knights even extend an open invitation to viewers to join them in their adventures and appear in future episodes, provided that they’re willing to actually work toward realizing the team’s mission.

Example Episode Summaries:

Final content will vary based on actual events as they unfold. The only thing determined prior to filming is the focus of a particular episode.

The Green Knights (pilot): The Green Knights recount how they came together, decided on their mission, and present various aspects of their training regimens. We get a behind the scenes look as they film a public service announcement that satirizes military recruitment videos while calling on members of the public to get involved in making the world a better place. We later see the team in action as they break up a drunken brawl and provide first aid to one of the participants until First Responders arrive.

Stolen Statues: The Green Knights investigate a series of thefts in which gigantic metal sculptures were stolen from city parks and bring the criminals responsible to justice. While pursuing leads the Green Knights also provide supplies to the city’s homeless population and cultivate a promising relationship with an anonymous informant.

Power Armor: The Green Knights explore the concept of DIY strength augmentation, interviewing students at Berkley Bionics lab, “fringe builders,” and other real-world mad scientists in their quest to equip themselves with affordable power armor. Their new strength-enhancing exoskeletons are ready just in time for a security gig in which the Green Knights protect a minor celebrity in the “grinder” community from a persistent stalker as she gives a presentation at a tech expo.

Stolen Guns: The Green Knights investigate the theft of 27 assault rifles from a US Army base, and in the process delve into various aspects of America’s gun culture. Ultimately unable to locate the stolen guns, the Green Knights make an appeal to the public to provide information, citing a $10,000 reward offered by the FBI.

Wildfire: The Green Knights certify as members of Los Angeles’ Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) and suggest ways that viewers can take active roles in disaster response in their communities. Their newfound skills are put to the test when a wildfire breaks out and the Green Knights assist in evacuating civilians. Despite some initial misconceptions, new member “Apex” proves himself a valuable member of the team.

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The Anomaly

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:00 pm

I like it. YouTube is becoming a large part of most peoples lives in this day and age, and preparing for a RLSH YouTube channel would bring this into the eyes of many. I don't have any videos online except for 1, but it has me in the video, so I'd rather not post it here, as it's meant to be a personal channel. I do have a few videos on my computer, and have made some for school projects, so I'd say that I would be fairly experienced. What's even better is that I am in ICT, so I can pick up a few things that I don't yet know. If I could have a few short clips from someone I could probably make a mockup intro sequence. If not, I'll make one without the clips anyways. In fact, I could probably do both.
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JohnDoe




PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:53 am

This sounds pretty damn awesome, actually.
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RedLight

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:09 am

"Green Knights" kind of sounds like you're a bunch of eco-warriors, but I like the plan.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:43 am

Yeah... I've tried to think of some way to avoid it sounding like an environmental group that will also allow --

- instant recognition (people wearing green and black and looking vaguely paramilitary for overt stuff)
- sound superhero-influenced to people who like that without the need to say "superheroes" all the time or wear tights, etc etc
- sound like a reasonable name for guys doing security work

It's the best I've come up with so far, but I'm not 100% satisfied with it.

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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Selling Out   Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:30 pm

E0N wrote:
Yeah... I've tried to think of some way to avoid it sounding like an environmental group that will also allow --

- instant recognition (people wearing green and black and looking vaguely paramilitary for overt stuff)
- sound superhero-influenced to people who like that without the need to say "superheroes" all the time or wear tights, etc etc
- sound like a reasonable name for guys doing security work

It's the best I've come up with so far, but I'm not 100% satisfied with it.

Knights of Light

Eon's Midnight Runners

The Los Angles Warriors

City of Angles Battalion

Cape Corps
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