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 Dealing with Pepper-Spray

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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:31 pm

After my most recent interaction with riot police, here's a helpful bit of information.

We call this LAW. It stands for Liquid Antacid Water.

Preparation:

1.) Get two clean bottles that have a squirt-nozzle. Make sure the nozzle isn't too big as you don't want to be hosing a pepper-spray victim with this. You want an easily-controlled stream.

2.) Fill half of the bottle with liquid Maalox.

3.) Fill the remaining half with water, giving a 50/50 mixture.

4.) Repeat with the second bottle.

5.) Optional: Take parachute cord and tie a jug-sling (or cat's paw) to secure the bottle, giving you easy access for rapid deployment in fast-paced environments.

Use:

1.) People exposed to pepper-spray are going to have a hard time seeing and will be experiencing varying levels of pain based on their personal threshold. People who have never encountered pepper-spray are going to be in more distress than those who have. Move them to an uncontaminated are and calm them down.

2.) Instruct the exposed person to tilt their head back and towards whatever eye you will be flushing first. (Do not touch their face, do not let them touch their face)

3.) Using the LAW mixture, drip a light stream from the inside of the eye to the outside. They may have a hard time opening their eye, but reassure them that the pain they're feeling is temporary and this will make it feel better.

4.) Instruct them to blink as you apply the LAW mixture. (Do not use the bottle like a fire hose!)

5.) Repeat the previous steps for the opposite eye.

6.) Make sure they don't attempt to touch or rub their eyes since they're hands may be contaminated.

7.) If they inhaled or ingested pepper-spray, the LAW mixture can be used as a gargle. Make sure to tell them not to swallow it.

8.) Flush with water to wash away the chemicals and repeat the process again.

Other reactions:

Pepper-spray and tear-gas are irritants. That means they can make other medical conditions worse. If you notice that the person you're working with is having a difficult time breathing, complaining of chest pain, or loses consciousness...get an ambulance.

Stay safe, and good luck!

-Red Dragon
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RedLight

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:51 pm

This is great, RD, thanks.
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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:34 am

Anytime. Hope you never need this...
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Vulpo

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:39 pm

Very useful information. I'll be sure to prepare to use these techniques on the field.
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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:01 am

Just wanted to make an addition. Some of the other street medics and I were talking about whether or not this mixture goes bad over time due to contaminants in water. So we label the bottles with the date that they were made.

If it seems like it's old. You probably shouldn't use it as I'm not sure if bacteria would thrive or not in a 50/50 LAW mixture.

On that note, if you notice that it's settled out a little bit. Give it a shake.
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:05 am

Thank you!!

Read, acknowledged and recorded for any possible future need.


Cheers! Cool \m/





~HS. :>
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:23 am

I'd just flush the eyes with saline until paramedics arrive. You can get it over the counter.
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:54 am

Gauge wrote:
I'd just flush the eyes with saline until paramedics arrive. You can get it over the counter.

*Wonders about the scientific reasons as to why one would be more effective than the other?*
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:41 pm

I talked with the poison control center for about fifteen minutes on this topic, and they are well aware of this LAW mixture. They said there haven't been reports of harmful effects, but are trying to discourage its use, because maalox is not designed specifically for use on the eyes. They said saline would be fine, but much preferred the use of warm water for the eyes. The main problem they noted is the volume of water needed would be too much to carry. They want the eyes flushed for 15 minutes, but agreed something is better than nothing until paramedics arrive or you can get get to a shower of soap and water.

They also advised to NOT RUB YOUR EYES, as more damage is done from the rubbing than the actual spraying. Obvious. Then he said many people shower and wash their eyes and body, but forget to wash their hair, and are reaffected as a result. Not as obvious.
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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:21 pm

The amount of saline required would be impractical. Also, pepperspray and crowd dispersants are oil-based which makes a saline flush ineffective.

If you have a shower available to you, you could use it...but it would take a while.
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Zombie

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:33 pm

Another good tip is to NEVER use pepper spray in a resturant. Your liable to get sued. I had this explained to me for my job as a security gaurd. If you spray the smallest possible amount in the farest corner of the restyrant away from the kitchen they still need to close and clean the entire restuant. Why a hero would need to use pepper spray in a resturant I don't know but still a good thing to know.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:15 pm

RD: I'm only regurgitating the information given to me from the National Poison Control hotline, in conjunction with Red Cross, and several EMTs, paramedics, and firemen (also paras)

I have to wait until Monday to talk to a Maalox customer service representative to hear their opinion.

If you have access to a shower, get in it and use warm, soapy water. If you're on patrol and are interested in this scenario, I'd advise a camel pack full of lukewarm water, and streaming it into the eyes until paramedics arrive, making sure to not let them rub their eyes. You did call 9-1-1, right?

Again, my sources -- National Poison Control, American Red Cross, and Emergeny Medical Professionals -- are not saying the LAW mixture won't work, but they definitely discourage its use. I for one, however, would be very curious to hear any firsthand accounts of its effectiveness.
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Zombie

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:22 pm

Oh snap. I just thought of something. The best thing to use is milk right? What if you carried powder milk, mix it with some water really quick and used that?
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:21 pm

Watch out for lumps.
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adamm[]

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:04 pm

Zombie wrote:
Oh snap. I just thought of something. The best thing to use is milk right? What if you carried powder milk, mix it with some water really quick and used that?

blast, i just thought about this, you beat me too it Sad

anyone daring enough to see if this works?? i am most definitively stupid enough, but i dont have any pepper spray and dont plan on buying any.
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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:11 am

The base solids in milk such as Magnesium and Lactose remain in the drying process. These alkalides remain regardless of water content.

Lemme find a vic...Er...volunteer to pepper spray Laughing
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Superman

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:22 pm


As far as possible contaminants in the water for this mixture goes I’d suggest using distilled water as it doesn’t have contaminants. You can easily obtain it without arousing suspicion by buying water labeled for use in steam irons. That will save you the hassle of distilling your own.

Superman
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:00 pm

Superman wrote:

As far as possible contaminants in the water for this mixture goes I’d suggest using distilled water as it doesn’t have contaminants. You can easily obtain it without arousing suspicion by buying water labeled for use in steam irons. That will save you the hassle of distilling your own.

Superman


Awesome! My sister introduced me to drinking distilled water!


Thank you, Superman...I will get right back on this as soon as I am able! Smile



Cheers,




~HS. :>
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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:04 pm

Yes, I've used LAW.

I used it on November 17th here in Portland after Police engaged protesters with pepper-spray. LAW mixtures were used on approximately 10-15 protesters with no notable negative after effects. Those exposed were visibly less distressed and in a considerably diminished amount of pain within about 90 seconds of application.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:19 am

Im glad to hear it was so effective. Maybe someone should collect hard data on the results and effects and submit it to red cross. It could be a worthwhile contribution.
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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:59 am

Personally, I'd love to. But I'm not sure the other medics would be thrilled with that idea since some of them could potentially lose their licenses. LoL
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:37 pm

Wel don't all medical research trials start with the question, "YOU WANT ME TO PUT THIS WHERE?!?"
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:21 pm

went to my local cvs but they were out of the good stuff. so I'm gonna have to go to my other local cvs later. thanks.

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catcommando

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Tue May 01, 2012 4:26 pm

Tips like this are awesome. Thanks for posting this.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with Pepper-Spray   Tue May 01, 2012 4:40 pm

Gauge wrote:
Im glad to hear it was so effective. Maybe someone should collect hard data on the results and effects and submit it to red cross. It could be a worthwhile contribution.

I'm pretty sure their advice would remain conservative and centered on water, regardless of data. Generally if you ask a medical professional something, especially on the phone, they're going to be pretty conservative in their answer. Like call the emergency room and describe minor cold symptoms, for instance... I bet the nurse won't explicitly tell you it's okay not to come in.

Razz

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