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Phix

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PostSubject: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:46 pm

So I've been flipping through the archive of posts in the Training session and notice that there are only a handful (two that I can remember off the top of my head) of posts that involve medical training.

This Spring I'm enrolling at the local community college to get my Basic EMT training. It's about 3 months of classes and hands on training with the local hospitals.

The reason? Because I want to be effective in a poor situation! On my patrols, I'd much rather be able to help while the ambulance is on the way than watch someone bleed to death.

Look into these classes. It runs around ~$1000 BUT you can get financial aid through the colleges. Most of the requirements are pretty easy. Be 18+, have medical insurance (which you can get through most colleges), and be able to pass the college's basic reading/math evaluations. Some do require CPR training beforehand, but that is also easily done.
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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:38 pm

Many volunteer fire/EMS services will train you for free if you volunteer (ie: hands on experience) as well.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:40 pm

Using EMT skills while doing an rlsh patrol is a violation. If you're not on duty, then you can only use your training under medical direction. This applies in all states (unless the rule has changed)
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:40 pm

Great Idea!

I have the first aid and CPR and a link for more

YAY, Phix, YAY!
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Phix

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:46 pm

Gauge wrote:
Using EMT skills while doing an rlsh patrol is a violation. If you're not on duty, then you can only use your training under medical direction. This applies in all states (unless the rule has changed)

While I'm not advocating breaking the law, /most/ of the time you are protected under your state's Good Samaritan Law. I'm currently locating some note-worthy references for this and this will be edited soon.

An excerpt from the emtcertificationtips website:

Quote :
Imagine you, an EMT, are on your way home one evening after work and you come upon the scene of an automobile accident. What do you do? Do you stop and begin providing emergency medical treatment to the driver of the car? Or do you just wait until emergency responders arrive to provide your witness report? In some states, you could be legally obligated to help the driver, while in others you may have no obligation to assist.

There has been much discussion over an EMT's duty to act. While on duty, an EMT has a duty to act, to respond appropriately and in accordance with his or her level of training when called out to assist with a medical emergency. Volunteer EMTs generally do not have a duty to act because they receive no pay for their volunteer service. While a volunteer EMT does not have a legal obligation to act, he or she may still voluntarily and willingly choose to do so. Similarly, an off-duty EMT legally does not have a duty to act because the EMT is not getting paid for his or her service.

If the off-duty EMT decides to aid the injured car driver, he or she may be protected by a Good Samaritan law, which simply put, legally protects one citizen who has unselfishly come to the aid of another. The "good Samaritan" is exempt from legal liability when aiding an injured person; he or she does not have to fear being sued for some unintentional injury to the injured or ill person. As a professional with EMT certification, you should understand your state's Good Samaritan law. In some cases the law applies only to trained rescuers such as EMTs and doctors while in other states the law covers untrained citizens.

It is also important to understand that the Good Samaritan law does not provide EMTs with blanket protection. If you are off-duty and providing emergency medical aid, you cannot act in gross negligence, with willful disregard, abandonment, or outside your scope of training and practice, just as you would never act that way while on-duty and providing medical assistance.

The Laws of Consent apply too. If the patient is an adult and is conscious and able to make a fully rational, informed decision, the patient will need to give their expressed consent to receive treatment. Implied consent applies if the patient is unresponsive or otherwise unable to make a rational decision. Implied consent also applies to minors if the parents or guardians are unavailable to provide consent.

Many believe emergency medical services (EMS) professionals have a duty to act, whether they are on or off the job; because of their training, they owe a greater duty to the community than does a non-trained individual. The truth is most states do not require an off-duty EMT to provide treatment. Should the EMT decide to treat someone who has fallen ill or been injured, they are obligated to continue providing treatment that falls within their level of training until emergency medical personnel arrive.


Overview of Good Samaritan Law (mileage may vary by state):
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Last edited by Phix on Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:07 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Spelled 'excerpt' as 'except'.)
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:50 pm

Even an emt can provide basic aid that anyone else can perform. I'm not saying you shouldn't help. I would probably dive right in, even if I was an emt.
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:04 pm

The above clip of the GS law is, almost to the letter, the same as what us aerobics instructors must read and follow
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:19 pm

Wow. I gotta check with my source, because I must have misunderstood what she was saying. Thanks for posting that Phix.
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Phix

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:25 pm

Again, mileage may vary by state. I could be wrong, and if I am, feel free to correct me. I'm by no means an expert and will not claim to be one.

I'm glad to have at least stirred up some debate on the matter! Communication is necessary!
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:59 pm

...and a great topic! THX
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Phix

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:21 pm

Nemesis wrote:
Many volunteer fire/EMS services will train you for free if you volunteer (ie: hands on experience) as well.

Also, I hadn't heard about this, and definitely didn't mean to dismiss it. I will look into this as well! Thank you. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:29 am

Absolutely. I respect anyone who will pay for the knowledge to be more effective, just thought I should throw it out there for something to look for.
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:13 am

Awesome! Good to see someone else seeking this training. It's served me and my team well to know what to do in medical and trauma emergencies. I will warn you, the 3 month course will be a very steep learning curve, stay on top of your studying.

Gauge wrote:
Using EMT skills while doing an rlsh patrol is a violation. If you're not on duty, then you can only use your training under medical direction. This applies in all states (unless the rule has changed)

Please provide a source for this information. It runs counter to everything I was taught in EMT school. I've assisted in trauma emergencies multiple times, called 911, gave a statement to the responders and never had any legal problem with it.
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Phix

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:47 am

Zimmer wrote:
Awesome! Good to see someone else seeking this training. It's served me and my team well to know what to do in medical and trauma emergencies. I will warn you, the 3 month course will be a very steep learning curve, stay on top of your studying.

Thank you for the warning! I've never had to study in school to maintain As and Bs, but as I'm actually probably going to end up paying for the courses (the local fire department is packed with trainees until the end of time) I'll take a less flippant approach to it.

Do you have any other advice for people pursuing EMT certification?
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:59 am

Believe it or not, CPR will clear a big percentage of the class out. You'll be competing with those that are serious enough to study hard for it.

Medical knowledge is extremely broad, no one person can ever know it all. As an EMT, you'll be expected to be familiar with an exceptionally large amount of information. Either you'll be stronger on physical skills, which pretend response to an emergency and doing it properly step by step, or stronger in book smarts, which includes anatomy, law and other memorization. It's a lot to learn in 3 months.

I suggest MedicCast, it's a podcast on iTunes that Knight Owl recommended to me that I found very helpful. Also, I love practice tests, and there should be some online in your state.
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Phix

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:04 am

I tend to be more of a 'book smart' type person.

I'll look into MedicCast when I get home from my shifts this weekend. I'll be too dead to glean much information otherwise.

I honestly didn't expect to get such a trove of information from the RLSH members. This is awesome.
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SkyMan

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:29 pm

I heard Knight Owl sweared by MedicCast when he just went through school!!! Also, youve inspred me Phix into seeing what I can take as far as Early EMT classes when I get back in school this January!
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Equal

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:03 pm

Does Red Cross offer basic first aid seminars in the US?
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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:24 pm

Red Cross offers CPR and basic first aid. It doesn't equal EMT or BLS training.

No. It's not a violation to act as an EMT when you're off duty. In the eyes of the state, you are an EMT 24/7 until your license expires. If you choose to fulfill your duties when you're off-shift, the only thing you need to ensure is that you abide by your assigned protocols and are not violating any company standards.

You also cannot act as an EMT in a place where your certifications aren't valid. For example, you technically can't render professional aid in Maryland under a NY cert. With that said, I usually approach that situation with "I'm an EMT from (enter state), do you want my help?" Then when you call 911, you identify yourself as an EMT from (enter state) and ask them to guide you.

Breaking protocol will get your license revoked. Breaking company rules gets you fired.

I also want to point out another thing. If you are a trained EMT, you are NOT covered under the Good Samaritan Act. You have other legal protections, but you're help personally responsible for the standard of care you render. In terms of GSA, the person is untrained and acting in good faith to help a person in need. There's a very big difference.
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Phix

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:34 pm

My post does say that you MAY be protected under it. I think that's where it varies by state.

Here's the Texas law:

Texas Good Samaritan Act

Article 6701d, Vernon's Civil Statutes ; Chapter 74, Civil Practice and Remedies Code Section 74.001

LIABILITY FOR EMERGENCY CARE

(a) a person who in good faith administers emergency care at the scene of an emergency or in a hospital is not liable in civil damages for an act performed during the emergency unless the act is willfully or wantonly negligent.

(b) This section does not apply for care administered:

(1) for of in expectation of remuneration;

(2) by a person who was at the scene of the emergency because he or a person he represents as an agent was soliciting business or seeking to perform a service for remuneration;

(3) by a person who regularly administers emergency care in a hospital or emergency room; or

(4) by an admitting physician or a treating physician associated by the admitting physician of a patient bringing a health-care liability claim.

(V.A.C.S. Art. 1a (part).)

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Midnite Detective

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:06 am


We went over Good Samaritan stuff a few posts down in this thread.
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KO and I hit some specific points on this.
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The Reverend

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:33 am

My cpr cert expired a decade ago . If I perform cpr on a dying person and break their ribs then they die I can be sued and meby even go to jail . I am going to get my red cross training soon but until then I will help a dying person . I would rather get sued than call it in and watch someone die . The legal thing and the right thing aren't always the same
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:58 am

Reverend, it is precisely that your certification HAS expired that you would be able to defend yourself in court and not be charged with a crime. Those that are immune from the Good Samaritan protections are those like Knight Owl and I that have the training that legally demands success. Our failure is illegal, yours is not.
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Equal

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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:33 pm

You can never have to much first aid training, but everything take time a dedication. Basic first aid training is enough for most people, EMT is for the people very intrested in first aid (or an exciting job). What's most important is the will to act and enough knowlege to not do all the unbelivable stupid mistakes.
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PostSubject: Re: Medical Training   Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:41 am

Great. Now I have to add another item to my list of things to learn before becoming a RLSH. study
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