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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:03 pm

Right now, the RLSH movement is in its infancy. No real worries from the darkside other than the already existing street thugs and criminals. But at some point, there may be a RLSV that will come out as a balance from what we stand for.

I'm going to throw scenarios out there and I want them thought of logicaly. Handle them with your current knowledge of physics, martial arts, chemistry, biology and sheer brains.

1. Scenario 1: The Lopper!
A man walking down the street in head to toe body armour with a four foot sword, going hari kari on any unwitting passer-by.
He's just killed three people in a Dunkin Donuts (One police officer, counter clerk and a mother of two)
He's stepping out just as you're coming up to the store on a lone patrol. GO!

2. Scenario 2: Killdozer!
A disgruntled muffler shop owner who's had his shop run out of business decides to modify a Komatsu bulldozer with interleaved concrete and steel plates a foot thick, 3 - 50 cal machine guns, full 360 video cameras with lexan lens protection, air conditioning and oxygen supply. He's started his nasty work by driving down Main Street (anytown, USA) he's plowed a judges house, the town city hall, assayers office, smashed 6 cars. Police have responded, firing hundreds of rounds into the cabin without making a dent. You've just turned on the TV and see this going on. GO!

3. Scenario 3: Crack Den.
On patrol, you come across a crack den. You collect info to give to the local police so they can get swat involved. Two very large guys (ala Michael Clarke Duncan) see you doing this, and go right for you. Both armed with glock 9mm, they start shooting at you and running after you. Apparently you've run into more than just a crack den, but a possible operation that these guys were meant to guard. GO!

There's more, and these situations have already happened in real life with real consequences without Real Life Super Heroes getting involved.
The idea is to prevent further loss of property, life and have a suitable outcome.

Think of this as a text based Danger Room. This probably isn't a fair assessment of all of our abilities, but part of this is to use what you have, not what you don't. Don't say forcefield or telekenesis or jetboots(unless you've built a pair and use them daily)

You can google and see what happened and do a full re-assessment of each scenario.

Good luck.
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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:47 pm

Ummm...Hari Kari describes a form of ritualistic suicide...so if he was going hari kari on people it would mean they were forced to watch him kill himself. I know what you were trying to describe but the terminolgy was incorrect.

_________________
Who are you? I've never heard of you nor have I been given reason to take you seriously, I'm sure lots of people share my opinion on this matter. Which is why you got your initial response, if you had made an introduction thread or at least made of point of saying who you are you probably would've been received better. (Sleepless)


Sometimes you cant win by fighting the negative, but you can turn the tide by strengthening the positive


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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:20 pm

Crossfire the Crusader wrote:
Ummm...Hari Kari describes a form of ritualistic suicide...so if he was going hari kari on people it would mean they were forced to watch him kill himself. I know what you were trying to describe but the terminolgy was incorrect.

LOL. Need to brush up on my Chinese (Kaiju is gonna come along and correct me and say it's Japanese)

Yeah, Thanatos can tell you about that nut. The attempted self inflicted one happened in Vancouver. I was referring to the L.I. slayer or the store bagger in LA.
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DRock

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:27 pm

Crossfire the Crusader wrote:
Ummm...Hari Kari describes a form of ritualistic suicide...so if he was going hari kari on people it would mean they were forced to watch him kill himself. I know what you were trying to describe but the terminolgy was incorrect.

Crossfire is right. What you really mean, Leviathan, is 'to run amok'. It's origins are from Indonesia, when martial arts practitioners would go after colonials by attacking and killing anything they run into. The local term was bastardized into the term 'to run amok'.

Those are out of my league. What the hell am I going to do to a Killdozer? Taser it? Harsh language? I certainly can't get a SMAW any faster than the cops can... though I suppose if I had the skill and materials I'd suggest to take out the tracks with some kind of explosive.

The crack den danger room is easy enough. Run like hell! Call the cops, call for help, and get somewhere public. Here's hoping they just want to shoo me away, and not open up where there are multiple witnesses (that would be stupid for them).

The swordman... easy enough. Run like hell! But keep his attention on me. I don't want to run just to find that he turns his attention to someone else and starts going kill crazy. That would make me indirectly involved with another person's death.




EDIT: I noticed that the swordsman and the crack den scenarios made me sound contradictory. I thought about it, and I have a good reason for it. For the crack den, you have two guards with guns trying to protect their interest. Their default isn't to go out and kill someone. Their interests are to not attract any more attention then they already have. So by running to somewhere public, you face them with a dilemma... take you out and attract a world of attention, or let you go. I'm banking on 'let you go', though I admit I wouldn't bet money on it. As for the swordsman... his intention was to bring a world of hurt to someone. Would you rather it go on someone else? And that's how I reason it...
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:02 pm

Swordsman: call police, let them shoot his ass.

Killdozer: call national guard, let them bazooka his ass.

Crack den: call Charlie Sheen.


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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:04 pm

Good call on the crackhouse and swordsman scenarios DRock.

The guards can't afford to have their operation blown. You collected the info you needed for the local PD. Odds are they will go back, tell their bosses what happened and they may move to another abandoned tenament before the local police show up.

Keeping the swordsman focused on you until backup can arrive will usually save others. Make him mad, throw something at him, keep him off balance until a better armed response comes along.

With Killdozer, it was only sheer luck that he fell into a basement and got stuck. Before that, Heeymeyer and Killdozer had resisted both bullets and three explosions.

The post-analysis of the situation is rather simple.
A bulldozer, especialy one with heavy armour plates is slow in speed and maneuverability.
I want you guys to have a look at the captured beast, and see if you can find its Achilles Heel.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Forgot to post the picture,duh...


Last edited by Leviathan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Proteus

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:05 pm

1. Scenario 1: The Lopper!

Yea, run and call the police. I do like DRock's idea to keep him occupied, since it's possible to stay well out of range of his sword and keep his attention off others while calling the police on your cell.

2. Scenario 2: Killdozer!

Neh. None can be done, ESPECIALLY if the cops are already on scene. The best you could do is follow in the wake and help out where you can.

3. Scenario 3: Crack Den.

Run like hell, call the cops. If they are on guard duty it's doubtful they'll chase you more than a couple of blocks. If they're firing at you and you are able to get away, it's most likely they know where you're going and they're going to want inform their people and take appropriate steps, since they've just brought severely unwanted attention to their enterprise. I'd think it would be more likely that they'd try to apprehend you or simply chase you off, rather than openly fire at you... but I could be wrong
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DarkShadow

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:59 pm

Gauge wrote:

Crack den: call Charlie Sheen.



Laughing Laughing Laughing THAT had me rolling in my battlesuit.

WINNING!!!

oops, you didn't hear that coming from me got it? Laughing

Carry on


DarkShadow out
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Gadgetastic!



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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:10 pm

On any tank like vehicle the tracks are always the most vulnerable point.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:34 pm

I'd use my ninja powers in every case mentioned.

_________________
- E0N
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Kaiju

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:11 pm

Leviathan wrote:
(Kaiju is gonna come along and correct me and say it's Japanese)


You assume I know more Japanese than I do. I didn't even know what kaiju meant until I looked it up after hearing it in a cartoon movie Razz
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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:55 pm

On behalf of Kaiju let me say it...JAPANESE!!!!!

_________________
Who are you? I've never heard of you nor have I been given reason to take you seriously, I'm sure lots of people share my opinion on this matter. Which is why you got your initial response, if you had made an introduction thread or at least made of point of saying who you are you probably would've been received better. (Sleepless)


Sometimes you cant win by fighting the negative, but you can turn the tide by strengthening the positive


SUPERHERO ACADEMY ON BLOG TALK RADIO - returning soon - times TBA - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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DarkShadow

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:14 pm

Scenario 1: The Lopper.
DarkShadow solution... If I can get close enough to him, a taser to the neck and then disarm him, tie his wrists and feet together with some plastic wrist ties, call the cops via helmet comlink.


2. Scenario 2: Killdozer! This reminds me of a scenario regarding a nutjob who stole a TANK from a National Guard yard and went on a rampage with it.

DarkShadow solution: Call the cops and National Guard and then try to get on board the killdozer without getting killed. I'd find the closest weak spot then drop a grenade to disable the vehicle if at all possible. Subdue the suspect when he tries to exit the vehicle,...if at all possible.

3. Scenario 3: Crack Den.

Drop a Flashbang/Smokebomb and get the hell out of there using every evasionary tactic that i have. No way I'm gonna stand around with 2 armed guys like that coming after me. Contact the cops via comlink and back them up if at all possible, using stealth tactics and letting them handle the big stuff.


DarkShadow out



Last edited by DarkShadow on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Equal

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:57 am

1: take him out with a bone-rang.

2: take him out with the dogtank

3: call a dogstrike and watch the poodles bomb them got pieces.

Not sure what to do with the maniac running around with granates, guess I'd call the cops and let them handle it
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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:52 am

Dark Shadow, love each of your solutions. Fleshing out on the crackhouse one, it would have made more sense to be on the phone with the PD as you were on the scene watching and observing. So when the thugs came out to get rid of you, the cops would be on site before anyone could leave. If they left right away, they would have had to abandon their equipment, drugs, money and other stuff. Probably left some of the resident junkies to fend for themselves in the process, they would be witnesses but the guys running the place wouldn't bother killing them, just trying to get away.
Also possible that they would try to scoop up what they could but get trapped by the police in the process, either way, that's one operation shut down and a lot of poison off the streets.

The Lopper, to top that off, break his sword after he's secured just in case he gets loose somehow. While he's down and hogtied, check him for other weapons. He is armoured so he might have some extra goodies hiding in his vest or pauldrons or bracers or somewhere.

I remember the tank scenario, he got stuck on a J-wall of all things. Three differences, Heeymeyer was sealed in Killdozer, he had no intention of leaving. Infact, after he was trapped, it took police with blow torches 3 hours after he killed himself to even cut their way into the vehicle. No door to break into.
Second, Heeymeyer was fully armed fith 50cals on the dozer, the tank had no shells on board and no weapons.
Lastly, the tank driver just went about it with no plan, Heeymeyer planned for months, had a map of where to strike, recording the whole thing as he went along.

Dogman, this is a serious brainstorming thread. Unless you plan on whipping out a mastadon bone and clubbing the swordsman with it, or if you have a Rhodesian Ridgeback with you for the crackhouse thugs... Or lobbing flaming bags of dogs*** at someone. Twisted Evil

In the mean time, I still have to speak with SH and Art about my solutions for each. They all involve a type of "storming the castle" if you will.

Each one would be viable solutions given your local laws, your personal capabilities and whether or not you've got the brass to go at each one.

I like Gauges response to The Lopper, run him down with hiscar Wink

And Proteus, you're a beautiful man. He's remembered, it's not just about the situation but what happens afterwards.
Help with the cleanup, help those who need assistance (trapped in rubble and so forth) great work.
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Krystalline

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:05 am

Darnit Josh stole my answer on the tank. The tread is the weak part.
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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:00 am

Time for a zen haiku solution:

Even a beast must breathe.
Land on top of him
Smother the beast through choking

With that said, it's still a diesel engine, the things' gotta have a tailpipe.
Former punk kids in the room, what do you do to the principals' car to keep
it from running? Shove a potato in the tailpipe, it stalls out.

That short vented box on the hood, tear the grating aside and either stick your hand over the pipe and risk burning yourself but stopping Killdozer, or take a simple $2 bag of potatoes along with you and shove them down the pipe until it chokes dead in the street.

Or if you're so physically inclined, smash the vent closed.
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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:19 am

The keep the swordsman distracted and angry posts amuse me. Guess you've never seen a trained swordsman. We just posted recently about the danger a knife wielder poses, and how fast they can close distance. Add in the reach of a sword. Run like hell, or attack. Running around at a few feet away throwing crap at him ends with you in pieces.

I have ninjutsu training, against a sword, while unarmed. I doubt it works. If others weren't in immediate danger, I run. If ten people are gonna get skewered before the police arrives, I'd give the disarm a shot.

Leviathan, interesting idea on killdozer. I would also suggest targeting whatever is enabling the user to see. Remember, the original killdozer was stopped when it got trapped. He was able to see because of cameras on the exterior, two I believe. Take them out and while it may not solve the problem of the killdozer entirely, the operator may stop moving, or move erratically and get stuck.

For the third, simply put you run. Hope you're in shape. If it were one at close distance, fighting might be possible. Two of them already shooting at you? No chance.
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Max



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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:52 am

Against the swordsman? If he's outside? Hit him with my car. Seriously.
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Proteus

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:01 pm

Nemesis wrote:
The keep the swordsman distracted and angry posts amuse me. Guess you've never seen a trained swordsman. We just posted recently about the danger a knife wielder poses, and how fast they can close distance. Add in the reach of a sword. Run like hell, or attack. Running around at a few feet away throwing crap at him ends with you in pieces

........I was thinking more keeping him occupied by talking to him. figuring that an RLSH on patrol is gonna have at least a teensy bit more armor on them than the average citizen, and figuring that someone wielding a sword and attacking people is clearly upset about something, and the fact that someone dressed like a superhero is going to be enough to make most people at least pause, you are then given a platform to distract and occupy the subject with simple dialog until the police arrive.

Of course, if he's not buying it, or you have no interpersonal skills, you can run.

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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:18 pm

I think the average person might pause for a moment longer than normal to take in the spectacle that some rlsh present, but a rampaging homicidal swordsman is not your average person. You're more than likely dealing with a mentally disturbed personality, and need special training to talk to someone like that (or extremely rare instincts). I'd still ram him with my car. If I was on foot, I'd call cops and steer clear. Try to keep others from getting impaled.

The crack den is the more likely scenario. If you get caught watching a drug house, then I'd say you have to re-evaluate your surveillance technique, because you should never be put in that position. But if this does happen, then run like hell, and don't worry about calling the cops until you're safely away. Also, check for injuries. Running from gunfire gets your adrenaline pumping, and you may not feel gunshot wounds immediately. Get treated if necessary. THEN make a statement to police. The hospital will call them automatically if you get treated for a gsw.

Killdozer: I wonder if tire spike-strips would get caught in the treads.

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Liberator

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:29 pm

Max wrote:
Against the swordsman? If he's outside? Hit him with my car. Seriously.

prob. shouldn't laugh at this, seems practical though.
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Kaiju

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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:11 pm

Crossfire the Crusader wrote:
On behalf of Kaiju let me say it...JAPANESE!!!!!


I feel special in this thread Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:27 pm

1. Scenario 1: The Lopper!
A man walking down the street in head to toe body armour with a four foot sword, going hari kari on any unwitting passer-by.
He's just killed three people in a Dunkin Donuts (One police officer, counter clerk and a mother of two)
He's stepping out just as you're coming up to the store on a lone patrol. GO!

A) I would get this guys attaintion on me then lead him away from the crowd. While I was leading him away I would call the police and inform the as to what is going on, where I'm at, and where I will try to lead him to. Once I had him to where there was nobody around I would becareful to avoid that sword of his but still try to get close so I tease this freak in the adams' apple.

2. Scenario 2: Killdozer!
A disgruntled muffler shop owner who's had his shop run out of business decides to modify a Komatsu bulldozer with interleaved concrete and steel plates a foot thick, 3 - 50 cal machine guns, full 360 video cameras with lexan lens protection, air conditioning and oxygen supply. He's started his nasty work by driving down Main Street (anytown, USA) he's plowed a judges house, the town city hall, assayers office, smashed 6 cars. Police have responded, firing hundreds of rounds into the cabin without making a dent. You've just turned on the TV and see this going on. GO!

A) Well for this I would run in to the nearest hardware grab some black spray paint and a bug bomb then try to get on to that vehicle than paint over that camras so that they are blacked out. Then find the door and and drop in the bug bomb he would have to come out for fresh air

3. Scenario 3: Crack Den.
On patrol, you come across a crack den. You collect info to give to the local police so they can get swat involved. Two very large guys (ala Michael Clarke Duncan) see you doing this, and go right for you. Both armed with glock 9mm, they start shooting at you and running after you. Apparently you've run into more than just a crack den, but a possible operation that these guys were meant to guard. GO!

A) I woould start runing turn a corner and throw two handfuls of marbles on the gound wait till they turn the corner they will fall I tease them than take there guns and see what they were trying keep me from finding.

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Max



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PostSubject: Re: Another post got me to thinking.   Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:38 pm

Hey, Lib: G'head! Laugh! I promise it's all good.
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Another post got me to thinking.
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