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 Should we EVER use deadly force?

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Gauge



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PostSubject: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:57 pm

One thing everyone "knows" about superheroes is that they never kill. There are chaotics like the Punisher yes, but I don't classify him as a hero. So the question is, if rlsh are trying to embody the values of iconic heroes, should we use even authorized (or legally defensible) lethal force even to save our life or that of another? Keep in mind and factor in that we voluntarily maximize our risk of being in a potentially lethal encounter by doing crime patrols. I await your thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:10 pm

Our rights to lethal force exist tights or not, depending on where we are.

Should we? Well I think that opinion will vary. I imagine for some, the symbol matters right up til the point lethal danger comes into play, then all bets are off. Personally, I think that deadly force is something that will seriously impact the tolerance of RLSH, even if justified, and that decision should be avoided as much as possible.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:36 pm

Never say never. It has nothing to do specifically with being superheroes.

I just hope nobody ever wants to hurt other people... even though obviously a lot of people do.

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Kaiju

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:52 pm

Nemesis wrote:
I think that deadly force is something that will seriously impact the tolerance of RLSH, even if justified, and that decision should be avoided as much as possible.


I would say it should be avoided as much as possible even if that wasn't the case. There may be times when it's necessary, though. I just hope none of us ever encounter one of those situations.
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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:24 pm

I suspect highly that the vast majority of the might happen would be a result of lack of preparation. Your mileage may vary.
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DarkShadow

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:55 pm

Burning question there.

If I'm not mistaken, if one's life is indeed in danger and there is no escape, use of deadly force is authorized. The scenario of someone breaking into your home with a full and true intent to kill comes to mind. With respect to what Kaiju just posted, I am in full agreement, one should hope to never be put into a situation what would justify the actual use of deadly force. We of course, are not actual Law Enforcement and we already know that they even catch a lot of flack when they use such means. Depending on the situation I think a certain degree of intimidation and non-lethal getting-the-right-message-across to a perp would be in the best interest.

As for myself, I fully intend to scare the living shit out those who think Crime is a fun and decent way of making a living. That and the use of a good solid 100,000 volt Taser should suffice.


DarkShadow out
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Sleepless



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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:15 pm

Should we? No. Should we be prepared to? Yes.
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:16 pm

Most RLSH aren't trying to role play, actually. We're far more interested in helping others than trying to act like the comic books.
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Polarman

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:18 pm

but sometimes we do end up in fights while trying to protect other people
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NightAngel

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:51 pm

i personally would and probably wouldnt mind if it was to save a life that was endangered. violence happens and u have to make a split second decision.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:55 pm

Ok... the thing about this question (IMO) is that you should forget about the RLSH angle for a minute, because there really is no specific RLSH angle. It's a question of what you should do as a person.

Can you realistically imagine someone coming at you with a knife and going "hmm... I'd better pull my punches here so as not to hurt this guy"...?

If you can you are badder asser than me.

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Polarman

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:58 pm

I hope that I never have to kill anybody even if its to save a life Ill probably do more to protect the person Im saving by getting him out of there However I will hold the offender back any way I can
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NightAngel

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:01 pm

what if the decision isnt like that polarman? what if its kill the person or a innocent person dies? what then?
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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:08 pm

here you go.say a person jumped out at you and came at you with a knife.you jump to the side and judo flip him, get the knife and hold him for the cops. the cops would call it self defense with no deadly force but if the attacker hit his head and got a concussion from the same move.the cops will then say deadly force.it seems it all depends on the result of the force before they call it deadly or not.another stupid law.
as for me , i have been in bloody battles that i barely fought out with my life. i had to use all the force i had call it deadly or not.
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Polarman

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:19 pm

Put it this way If I feel that the guy is too much for me to handle Then the cops come in to the fight while I get the other person out of there
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:40 pm

E0N wrote:
Ok... the thing about this question (IMO) is that you should forget about the RLSH angle for a minute, because there really is no specific RLSH angle. It's a question of what you should do as a person.

I respect and appreciate that view, but the question posed is does use of deadly force, in any case, belong in the rlsh methodology. Therefore we need to keep rlsh and the image of it in mind when addressing the question. I thought that'd make it a more provocative question than just plain lethal force debate.
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Polarman

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:53 pm

I was thinking that this is one that I would like to see someone like Superhero answer because he carrys a firearm with him on patrol Also having said that This is one of the reasons I dont carry a firearm at all
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Equal

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:30 pm

What work in comics don't work in RL. People don't pass out without getting seriusly hurt when they are hit in the head. They get back up and want to kill you even more, or they stay down and is in dire need of medical attention.

Comic book voilence has no consequences. Real voilence always have consequences. If you're not good at voilence, the consequences can be even worse. Voilent encounters are lose-lose situations, I wouldn't expect to get out of it looking good, heroic or like a good role model. It's ugly. If you can get through it without dealing or getting any serius injuries, it's nice, but still ugly. If you manage to descalate a conflict before it become a voilent encounter, that's art!

We better stay on the right planet here.
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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:39 pm

E0N wrote:
Ok... the thing about this question (IMO) is that you should forget about the RLSH angle for a minute, because there really is no specific RLSH angle. It's a question of what you should do as a person.

Can you realistically imagine someone coming at you with a knife and going "hmm... I'd better pull my punches here so as not to hurt this guy"...?

If you can you are badder asser than me.

THIS.

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Chivalry




PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:14 pm

Deadly force is necessary when lives are at stake. You have to decide when your in that situation what to do, but sometimes you can't avoid it.

If I was in a situation where I had no way out and it was me or them, its them. It's called self defense for a reason.
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thanatos

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:01 pm


if you go into any situation knowing that you can use lethal force then at some point you will.

no. we are not soldiers or police. we are people trying to help others and keep people alive and protect people. there is no reason for any of us to take a life for any reason.

any one of you ever taken a life? in combat as a memeber of the military or police?

it never leaves you and you always, ALWAYS wonder if ther could have been another way. no matter how many times it may have happened.

thinking along these lines is not part of what we do or what we are about no matter the circumstance. defending yourself is one thing. doing what you have to in order to stay alive is understandable, but thinking of justification before hand for lethal force is allowing yourself to take that step when you should be looking for other options.

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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:12 pm

Everyone listen to Thanatos or I will come for you in the night and drink the blood of your children. With a slurpee straw.
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Chivalry




PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:27 pm

That's very valid Thanatos. I have never done any of the such nor do I wish to, but being mentally prepared for it doesn't make you any less likely to think of other ways to do something.

You should look at something from every side and aspect constantly be seeing the angles and understanding the choices that befall you. You should be prepared for every instance and every outcome.
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Dark Guardian

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:46 am

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thanatos

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PostSubject: Re: Should we EVER use deadly force?   Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:11 am

Chivalry-very true. being mentally prepared for any contigency is vital to survival at any encounter. but the mindset a person has going into a situation can govern how he or she will react. you dont want to restrict your choices but keep ALL options open to ensure a safer and livable outcome to a encounter.
keeping as many options open while knowing that the final last resort action is the one you dont want to use, even working to prevent it is how police and even military deal with most situations.
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