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 Is it REALLY a crime?

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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:31 am

Stop and look at all the different terms used for rape in the criminal justice system...Statuatory rape, sexual misconduct, sodomy, and rape itself are just a few but all refer to basically the same thing...one person inserting something into another person's orifices against their will.

The laws are written to be so technical that they seem confusing to the unlearned or inexperienced...when youwork within the system like a police officer, correctional officer, or even a security guard, you need to know where the rubber meets the road on these crimes before you can effectively do your job. The same goes for a RLSH.

We are not out there to enforce every single law...most of us are out there to SERVE and PROTECT...we could care less if its illegal for someone to walk their cow down main street after 5am and we would much rather see Jimmy Cracknoggin get off the dope and become a productive citizen than stick him in jail.

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Who are you? I've never heard of you nor have I been given reason to take you seriously, I'm sure lots of people share my opinion on this matter. Which is why you got your initial response, if you had made an introduction thread or at least made of point of saying who you are you probably would've been received better. (Sleepless)


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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:02 pm

All off topic posts have been removed...now back to the discussion

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Who are you? I've never heard of you nor have I been given reason to take you seriously, I'm sure lots of people share my opinion on this matter. Which is why you got your initial response, if you had made an introduction thread or at least made of point of saying who you are you probably would've been received better. (Sleepless)


Sometimes you cant win by fighting the negative, but you can turn the tide by strengthening the positive


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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:21 pm

In phoenix, it is illegal to leave the city unarmed a crime that I commited daily
as I drove to Tempe sans projectiler.



We do know that sodomy is defined as much more than ( ).

MANY people breaky that law nightly, fortnightly and on some afternoons
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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:27 pm

and its not illegal in all places either

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Who are you? I've never heard of you nor have I been given reason to take you seriously, I'm sure lots of people share my opinion on this matter. Which is why you got your initial response, if you had made an introduction thread or at least made of point of saying who you are you probably would've been received better. (Sleepless)


Sometimes you cant win by fighting the negative, but you can turn the tide by strengthening the positive


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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:36 pm

Thank yoU!
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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:42 pm

are you thanking me for mentioning that its not illegal or just thankful that it isnt illegal....LOL

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Who are you? I've never heard of you nor have I been given reason to take you seriously, I'm sure lots of people share my opinion on this matter. Which is why you got your initial response, if you had made an introduction thread or at least made of point of saying who you are you probably would've been received better. (Sleepless)


Sometimes you cant win by fighting the negative, but you can turn the tide by strengthening the positive


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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:53 pm

sorry my mouth was full

Wink
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:11 am

Crossfire the Crusader wrote:
Stop and look at all the different terms used for rape in the criminal justice system...Statuatory rape, sexual misconduct, sodomy, and rape itself are just a few but all refer to basically the same thing...one person inserting something into another person's orifices against their will. .

Not to be overly sensitive, but come on now. Sodomy, AKA anal sex between men, is not rape and should not be considered rape.
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:14 am

bow chica wowwow
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:16 am

Artisteroi wrote:
All laws that are "victimless" are laws of pride. Those are sins of pride. Which man does because he is self absorbed and thinks of himself first instead of his fellow man. Essentially we would not do any of those if it were not for pride.

While we're at it, if you have sex with a woman that's your right, but if I have sex with a man I'm self absorbed and sinful? Not trying to start another goddamn argument over the gay because WOW have we had too many of those, but interested to get anyone's thoughts or clarification. While we're on the subject of victimless crimes.
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:18 am

Once upon a time there was a cave man named OOOOG.

All the other cave men were named UG but this guy was named
OOOOG because EVERYone knew that he was BORN THAT WAY.

They embraced him and his ways and harmonized him into their daily lives
and they ALL benefitted
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:28 am

Now I need to replace 01011010 on my uniform with OOOOG. It'll be classy.
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:32 am

Thank you, son, Thank you!

If you were my son, I'd be VERY proud of you!




I want to share this:

I stared from a stereotyped point but, please bear with -

I started with,
"WHY can't straight people keep up with gay people in fashion and interior design?".

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of this because straight people CANNOT keep up on these subjects.

I ended up concluding that gay people have to ask them selves SO MANY more questions that, they end up on a brilliant plain of thinking.
This is not to say that all gay people are brilliant.
This is to say that have to question yourself extensively is very good for the brain
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Equal

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:02 am

I don't expect anybody to discuss what's going on in my bedroom. And it's a dull subject anyways, most of the time I just sleep.

Why are americans so obsessed about other peoples sex life? Get your own!
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:10 am

YAY for sleeeeep!
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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:55 am

Zimmer wrote:
Not to be overly sensitive, but come on now. Sodomy, AKA anal sex between men, is not rape and should not be considered rape.
First of all, the dictionary defines sodomy as, "Anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex, Copulation with a member of the same sex, Bestiality", more over, "Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal, especially anal intercourse or bestiality." So no, it is not purely aimed at homosexuals. As for lumping sodomy in with rape...well, "Oregon law refers to sex crimes involving "rape," "sodomy," "unlawful sexual penetration," and "sexual abuse" among others" (link). Okay?

Zimmer wrote:
While we're at it, if you have sex with a woman that's your right, but if I have sex with a man I'm self absorbed and sinful? Not trying to start another goddamn argument over the gay because WOW have we had too many of those, but interested to get anyone's thoughts or clarification. While we're on the subject of victimless crimes.
Come on, really? And of course you are trying to start a fight over homosexuality...it's to be expected with you. Even when it's not warranted, out it comes. This thread has to do with bizarre or illogical laws; if you have one, then share it…
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Flora V. Arbor

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:02 am

Excuse me for changing the subject
but,
does this really mean that my husband cannot, by law, ask me to do "things",
even on his birthday?
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:12 am

Well homosexual sex was illegal in the US until 2003, and is still illegal in dozens of countries, so it fits the topic. If I have a point here, it's that although I am not a drug user or an illegal immigrant or a prostitute, I can identify with being a "criminal" without actually hurting anyone.

I think we should be able to identify with those three groups of people. I think that's worth discussing.
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Zimmer

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:13 am

And I was pulling the definition of sodomy from Wikipedia:

Sodomy (pronounced /ˈsɒdəmi/) is an "anal or other copulation-like act, especially between males or between male persons or between human being and animal," and one who practices sodomy is a "sodomite." The word is derived from the "Sodomites," the inhabitants of Sodom, a "wicked town" described in chapters 18 and 19 of the bible's Book of Genesis.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:18 am

Well...a man giving it to his wife in the back door would agree with you, as would a prostitute, as would a guy giving it to a dog...if the point you were trying to make was to show another silly law, then why didn't you just say, "Homosexual sex was illegal in the US until 2003, and is still illegal in dozens of countries," instead of, "...if you have sex with a woman that's your right, but if I have sex with a man I'm self absorbed and sinful?"

Zimmer wrote:
And I was pulling the definition of sodomy from Wikipedia
Wikipedia is not a dictionary, it can't even be used as a source in school's, college's or university's. Also, since we are talking about LAWS, Wikipedia said this about Sodomy Laws:
"A sodomy law is a law that defines certain sexual acts as crimes. The precise sexual acts meant by the term sodomy are rarely spelled out in the law, but are typically understood by courts to include any sexual act deemed unnatural. It also has a range of similar euphemisms. These acts typically include oral sex, anal sex and bestiality; in practice such laws have rarely been enforced against heterosexual couples." (link)
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Sleepless



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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:41 am

Today in RLSH training, "Who should and shouldn't be able to take it in the ass." Seriously? Anyone can read this shit it's in the public section.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:42 am

Sleepless wrote:
Today in RLSH training
Good point, moving to the Legal section...also, why did you think that it was a good idea to tell people to tone it down, since people can see the page, by using curse words? Also, who cares? Sodomy is a biblical term, legal term, social term, etc...and who cares if we talk about homosexuals and prostitutes? Are you afraid that our biggest supporters, the WBC, will be unhappy about it? elephant
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Lunar Veil

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:16 am

Flora V. Arbor wrote:
Excuse me for changing the subject
but,
does this really mean that my husband cannot, by law, ask me to do "things",
even on his birthday?

From the desk of the resident law student:

First of all, when citing the law on this forum, please cite reputable sources of information. I say this because this section of the forum was designed for sharing legit legal information which will be of benefit to, and will serve a purpose within, the RLSH community. In order to maintain a professional atmosphere here, please cite primary sources instead of secondary sources. By doing so, we will build up an archive of credible information.

Wikipedia is not a reputable source of information where the law is concerned. You earn an automatic F grade if you cite it as a source in the works cited section of any academic paper, and it should not be accepted here, either. I have seen too many Wikipedia law students come into the office, proving to be very difficult clients to defend because they spent more time arguing with their attorneys than they did preparing an effective case. Attorneys who spent many hours upon grueling hours studying the law in order to defend said clients – people who had only read Wikipedia.

Not only is this an insult to an accomplished attorney or law student, but it is also entirely frustrating to deal with. Lost cases and misconceptions of the law are only two of the potential consequences of Wikipedia law students. Here, the consequences (which I can think of at this moment) are limited solely to the latter misconceptions of the law and a lack of professionalism, but those are consequences enough for me to make this statement with conviction.

Regarding the issue at hand, the two of you (Flora V. Arbor and Zimmer) are discussing antiquated legal definitions; meanwhile, the rest of us are discussing contemporary law and legal definitions.

About sodomy. The basics. The constitution of sodomy largely varies depending upon which state's statutory law is applicable to the given situation. Generally speaking, sodomy is defined as involving "unnatural" sexual acts; having said that, sodomy can actually cover a broad spectrum of sexual activity, involving both heterosexual and homosexual acts. The particular category of sodomy may include yet another broad spectrum of other offenses, including anal sex, bestiality, cunnilingus, fellatio, and necrophilia. Yes, sodomy is often associated with homosexual acts, but the statutory law in most states does not make such a fine distinction, as consenting, heterosexual couples may also be found guilty of sodomy. Some states go so far as to outlaw "unnatural" sexual practices between married couples.

Having said that, law enforcement generally pays as much attention to sodomy laws as it does to cohabitation laws and fornication laws; however, there do exist occasions where an individual may be charged with sodomy. Before I continue, a distinction should be drawn here between consensual acts of sodomy versus acts of sodomy involving force. The latter acts often fall under the category of rape, which constitutes another joint, yet separate, area of the law.

I am in no way stating that consenting partners who have committed sodomy are never prosecuted, as in the August 1982 case of BOWERS v. HARDWICK. Again, though, this case took place in 1982.

Let us instead discuss a more recent and substantial case. LAWRENCE v. TEXAS. 26 March, 2003 through 26 June, 2003. This landmark case was a victory for homosexuals throughout the United States of America, and it is perhaps the most significant case regarding homosexuality to date. It is important to note that while fourteen states do maintain written legal precedent forbidding consenting, unrelated adults from having consensual sex which, by legal definition, constitutes sodomy, said written legal precedent is unenforceable as per its invalidation by the Supreme Court of the United States of America.

Flora V. Arbor: As I have demonstrated above, your husband may ask you to do things for him on his birthday. In fact, that is his right under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. Keep in mind that only ten out of the fourteen states which still ban sodomy ban all forms of sodomy. There exist four states which ban sodomy solely between two people of the same sexual orientation. Also, again, sodomy laws would be highly unlikely to be upheld in a court of law.

Just please do not share it with the class when you two do commit these acts. Heterosexual or homosexual, that is an inappropriate discussion to be having on this forum.

Note: This post was a very short summary. I could, in fact, write for hours on sodomy laws, but I wanted to keep it short here. If anyone would like any additional information regarding sodomy laws (or any other type of law), then please submit a request to me via private message, and I will gladly elaborate here in this thread.

Thank you.
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Artisteroi

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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:54 am

Most "sin" is in the eye of the beholder. It is the flip side of the beauty coin. Sex was never a sin until the churches made it into one. Mostly in retaliation to the "pagan" religions that regularly have sex as ceremony. A true connection of people through body and mind, it is a very spiritual event. Had it not been for the churches saying how evil it is, there would likely be no such thing as sex crimes.

Personally I think sex is one of the most beautiful things that people can share with each other. You have to let down all your defenses, and share your true self with another in order for it to happen. You literally have to trust your exposed self to someone. That is beautiful.

As for the gay thing. I have a theory. Gay people are kinda both sexes at the same time. One physical the other mental. That allows them to be complete without having to find a soul mate to help with the day to day living. As a result they can accomplish more, do more simply be greater form of humanity.

Many of the greatest people who ever lived were gay. Leonardo, Shakespeare, Julius Caesar. Countless other geniuses who lived and died "a bachelor" never confessing that they were gay.
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Sleepless



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PostSubject: Re: Is it REALLY a crime?   Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:07 am

Dark Wolf wrote:
Sleepless wrote:
Today in RLSH training
Good point, moving to the Legal section...also, why did you think that it was a good idea to tell people to tone it down, since people can see the page, by using curse words? Also, who cares? Sodomy is a biblical term, legal term, social term, etc...and who cares if we talk about homosexuals and prostitutes? Are you afraid that our biggest supporters, the WBC, will be unhappy about it? elephant

What place does a sexual discussion have in the training section? I couldn't careless about toning it down, but mentioning the fact the public can see it usually gets things done around here a lot faster.
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