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 Entrapment

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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Entrapment   Tue May 10, 2011 5:38 pm

Entrapment is basically getting another person to commit a crime they would not have intended to commit on their own under normal conditions.

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ENTRAPMENT

A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty.

In slightly different words: Even though someone may have [sold drugs], as charged by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then he is not guilty. Government agents entrapped him if three things occurred:

- First, the idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.

- Second, the government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving him the opportunity to commit the crime is not the same as persuading him to commit the crime.

- And third, the person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him.

On the issue of entrapment the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents.


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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:05 pm

What has this to do with rlsh? Private citizens can't be guilty of entrapment unless they are acting as an agent for law enforcement. I don't foresee an incident wherein an rlsh will be working undercover for the police, at least not in the capacity if an rlsh.
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Kaiju

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:26 pm

Some RLSH (like the NYI) do sting operations. This is important to keep in mind at those times.
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:00 pm

What the NYI does is not entrapment.

There's a show I've watched call Bait Car. The premise is police leave a high end car with the engine running and wait for someone to steal it.

There was also an episode of COPS where they left a mercedes benz bicycle out in the open unprotected to entice a thief.

None of these things are entrapment.

Now if a police officer came up to you and said, you are going to kill this person, or steal this thing, otherwise I am going to throw you in jail or some other such punishment.

That's entrapment.

Cops do undercover sting operations all the time, dressing as prostitutes or victims with things that are easy to steal like purses and such.

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Red Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:37 pm

What does this have to do with RLSH?

There was a debate about entrapment at the time that I posted this. I posted this to clarify.
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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:45 pm

Some people, including law enforcement accuse the NYI of perpetrating entrapment with their bait patrols.

That's what it has to do with RLSH.

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:27 am

Understood. Unless the NYI are acting at the behest of police, there can be no entrapment, and walking down a street may entice a criminal, but is not anywhere near entrapment.
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Kaiju

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:44 pm

I never thought that what the NYI does is entrapment. I was just pointing out how this is something that is important for other RLSH who may want to do sting patrols.
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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:50 pm

No worries on that front. Rlsh are in no real danger of violating entrapment. Bait patrols are an enticement to criminals, just providing them an opportunity to do what they were going to anyway.
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Midnite Detective

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:59 pm

Urban Avenger wrote:
Some people, including law enforcement accuse the NYI of perpetrating entrapment with their bait patrols.

That's what it has to do with RLSH.

Isn't it amazing how many cops will straight up lie to you about laws that they are either ignorant of, can't understand, or whatever other reason they see fit to lie about.

One of our rookies tried that with Grey Man over his extending baton last year claiming he couldn't have it in city limits. The moron didn't realize he worked with two other cops.
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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:03 pm

In the city of Portland, I have talked to several different police officials with regard to open carry of firearms. Using the same parameters, I got many different responses. Police do not have encyclopedic knowledge if the laws, and will interpret them as individuals. So I don't think they lie about the law (in Portland) so much as they interpret them wrong sometimes.
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Crossfire the Crusader

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:17 pm

considering that the laws are a convluted mess filled with loopholes and contradictions, Im amazed when ANYONE has a firm grasp on things. Even lawyers have to research the laws prior to going to court to make sure they cover every possible option.

Politicians think they are doing people a service when they pass more laws following things like the Senator Gifford shooting or Columbine, but they seem to be under the impression that had there been ANOTHER law in place the events would not have happened. The Columbine killers didnt set around saying "There are only 27 laws against this so its OK...if there were 29 we would have to call it off."

Things like entrapment get thrown out there by people like that stupid cop chick in the movie because they dont understand the full range of the law. The number one thing that defines entrapment is that the police are the ONLY ones who can commit it. An every day citizen cannot be guilty of entrapment...they would be guilty of conspiracy to commit or possibly extortion.

Its kind of like accusing a non service member of treason. ONLY a person in the military can commit an act of treason. A non service member might fight against his country but its the breaking of the vow to defend your country that constitutes treason.

The NYI is not entrapping anyone...they are simply fishing for idiots.

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PostSubject: Re: Entrapment   Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:24 pm

Coercion could also come up, but not in the bait patrol scenario.
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