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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:49 am

Crimson, to avoid fighting by looking impressive and to mask the fact that occasionally I have to use the pole to obey the laws of physics. Basically my intended approach is very deliberately theatrical. It's kind of a presence thing.

I actually am decent enough at fighting that I could go out and beat some people up or something, but that's not what I'm looking for at all.

Also I view this on some level as a performance. Ironically I think that will make me more effective, rather than less.

And you can't really be "superhuman." Appearing superhuman is a magic trick, more or less, sustained through planning, training, skill, and effort.

It's like why the pogo stick boots? It's because when someone sees you walk up on them they're like "Hey, here comes a superhero." You don't even have to tell them. People talk to me in a friendly way SO much more than they would otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:58 am

And people REALLY dismiss the value of this stuff (applied theatricality, I mean). For example, I can walk around freely with (for all intents and purposes) a fighting baton in my hand. Right next to cops downtown. I can smile at them in full gear and say "How are you doing tonight?"

People discount that a guy cracking up with laughter honestly can't fight as well as he would otherwise. In fact he probably doesn't want to fight in most realistic circumstances.

If you're going for a purely functional approach, then why not be a "real life clandestine operative?" You could take down serious criminals that way for far less money invested than people spend on helmets designed to protect their faces from shotgun blasts (I went to war 5 times without needing that and I'm still here).

I guess finally I really want to be a nice guy and do nice things now. I don't aspire to be anyone's "worst nightmare."
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:02 am

Dark Patriot wrote:
I studied Escrima for a long time and it really helped at work. Me personally, I dont recommend Ninjistu while using the PowerBoks. Ninjistu is very heavy into stealth and balnce as well as maximizing the damge you do to an opponenent with minimum energy from you (Ninja had to fight Samurai, like a Jeep against an Abrams). Stick to functional styles. With the popularity of MMA now, a good percentage of your opponents may be MMA fighters. If you are going to use the PB's, you will have to train to adapt to close in fighters AND getting aways from praticioners of the click clack BANG style

WHOA WHOA WHOA. Hold on a second there. Ninjutsu is a VERY functional martial art style. More so than other old stlyes are in this day and age. Modern ninjutsu while incoporating stealth still has expanded to accomadate the changes of the age. It has incorporated usage firearms along with disarming techniques to use against opponents using firearms. Plus it is one a the few styles you can learn in a dojo wear you are trained to fight with and against dirty tricks just as you would face in a real confrontation. Of the old styles Ninjutsu is less about honor as it is survival hence the reason it is still practical to this day. If you look at the styles used by some of the MMA fighters you'll also notice that quite a few of them do have ninjutsu in their repetoire. The Bujinkan even teaches ninjutsu to various police and military personel.

Sorry if I come off a bit pushy here but I gotta defend my style. But I will agree with you on the matter of those of the click clack BANG style - if it's possible get as far away from them as you can and only use the disarming techniques if there is absolutely no other option such as being cornered in a dead end alley.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:05 am

Mega-Rad wrote:
Crimson, to avoid fighting by looking impressive and to mask the fact that occasionally I have to use the pole to obey the laws of physics. Basically my intended approach is very deliberately theatrical. It's kind of a presence thing.

I actually am decent enough at fighting that I could go out and beat some people up or something, but that's not what I'm looking for at all.

Also I view this on some level as a performance. Ironically I think that will make me more effective, rather than less.

And you can't really be "superhuman." Appearing superhuman is a magic trick, more or less, sustained through planning, training, skill, and effort.

It's like why the pogo stick boots? It's because when someone sees you walk up on them they're like "Hey, here comes a superhero." You don't even have to tell them. People talk to me in a friendly way SO much more than they would otherwise.

I get the whole wanting to look impressive with a show of great skill with a weapons such as an amazing series of bo twirls but I keep remebering that scene from Raiders of the Lost Arc. That swordsman had mad skills but it really didn't end well for him.


Last edited by Tengu on Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:47 am

no offense but my tae kwan do teacher and my former kick boxing teacher said that ninjitsu was a joke :\
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:02 am

When learning from the independent dojos in the US that claim to teach what they call "njutsu" then yes I'll agree with you. But if you actually want to learn proper modern ninjutsu then you have to go with the Bujinkan. With the Bujinkan you're eventually forced to go to Japan to earn your higher belts so you can learn the more advanced techqniques. The only non Bujinkan dojo I would ever possibly recommend for an art based on ninjutsu would the the SKH Quest Center run by Stephen K Hayes, the first american awarded the title of shidoshi by Hatsumi. The only downside is that he teaches a modified art based off ninjutsu and is no longer recognized by the Bujinkan despite earning its highest honors most likely due to his not requiring his students to go to the head dojo in Japan to earn their higher level black belts.

What made ninjutsu become regarded as a joke amongst many in the martial arts community was the ninja craze of the 80's that inspired so many films that horribly skewed the way the art truly is. Prime examples are the ninja sword being straight and the idea that a shuriken was used to kill instead of it's true use as a distractionary weapon. Plus Naruto sure as hell hasn't helped with the way the public perceives ninjutsu either.
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E0N (Inactive)

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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:43 am

I don't think ninjitsu's a joke. I think there's a huge variety of things out there called "ninjitsu," though. Originally it was basically like special forces or SAS training, but in an earlier time. I guess I have some skepticism about ninja technique that involve guns or modern technology, but there's nothing to say they're inherently wrong -- they're just recent additions with whatever quality they possess. An individual "ninja" may very well be a joke or he might be surprisingly effective. I have no idea -- probably best just to know the person and go from there.

If I personally wanted to be a ninja, I would probably choose instead to become a navy SEAL or go to Delta selection or something and hold in my mind somewhere that I was a "ninja." But I'm too old for that $@%^ Razz and it's just not me. And to be objective here, or try to, every Japanese person I've ever spoken with about this considers ninjas basically fictitious -- they react like if you asked an American about becoming a Knight or a Wizard.

Also, Ant, and I don't mean any offense here either, honestly, but Tae Kwon Do is somewhat infamous for being more of a showy sport than a martial art with practical applications. In Korea they have kids do it for exercise before they start elementary school and stuff. That's fine and there's every reason to do it and maybe it's a great fighting art -- heck, probably anything can be a great fighting art if you work hard enough, but to confront someone with that particular criticism and base it on "my Tae Kwon Do teacher said" is kind of stereotypical in a bad way. The reason I say this is just so maybe you'll realize that and not be in that position later.

Tengu, I hear you. I promise I won't stand in front of Indiana Jones twirling my pole. I don't mean to be defensive here, but it's not like I said "this is my plan for learning how to fight." Smile

My hand to hand training could be made to sound a little impressive, but in reality it's almost laughable. I feel like I personally am not very afraid to fight someone, like if I had to, but here's what I've got:

- a few weeks of Kempo Comba Tai before I joined the army
- one style of "Close Quarters Battle" that could be summed up as "palm heel thrust them in the face. Now we're going to do that to you repeatedly while you wear this riot helmet to show you it works."
- "Modern Army Combatives" level one, which is like non-lethal grappling techniques (unless you hold a blood choke long enough, I suppose). They're intended to offer a lower level of force, I'm pretty sure, but doctrinally they're so you can disable someone and then your buddies show up and kill him.
- [EDIT: Oh yeah, I should probably also mention that I've fought in real life and been confronted with weapons and stuff. That seems strangely more pertinent than everything else I mentioned above]

Also I would be damned good at assassinating people, but that's not really something I plan to do. And it's not as much skill as knowing what can kill you -- like you have this triangular area between your eyes and nose that is pretty much an instant "off switch" if you cause significant piercing trauma to it.

Anyways. Twirling a camera monopod impressively. I think I will have occasion to use that skill if I can develop it well enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:58 pm

Well you are correct most TKD classes are for show and sports but in the end it all is based on your instructor which I suppose could be said about any martial art. My instructor is more focused on the self defense aspect of the art rather than the sport aspect of it. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:02 pm

there is something very viable to most arts. . .there are also things about every art that do not work for everyone studying it. . .for the subject at hand. . .your leg extentions require a more flexable art. . .consentrating on balance and legg work. . .it may end up using techniques from many arts. . .look up techniques that amputees study. . .those may focus in on movements you can use. . .in all seriousness. . .each art can be taken apart as not worth it or superior to any other. . .it depends on who is capable and not capable of preforming the move. . .don't get into dogging others chosen art as long as the art works for them. . .i've seen professionals destroyed on the mat by little girls who use the fan. . .no art is perfect and one reigns supreme. . .the best martial artist knows that there is always someone better out there. . .in and out of his art. . .study. . .learn what works best for you. . .it does no good to study one that works great for someone else. . .and does nothing for you. . .you would be wasting your time. . .what do i study. . .that may be a question you'd ask of me. . .well. . .truth be told. . .one that works for me. . .all my injuries. . .make some arts usless to me. . .so what's the best one for me. . .the one that allows me to move with my own failings. . .i've been using it for over 25 years now. . .in and out of actual combat. . .for me. . .it's proven it's value. . .but that does not mean it would work for everyone. . .

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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:54 pm

There aren't any credible martial arts forms that I can think of that have no practical use, even in today's modern society. However, this thread is specifically asking what form is best suited for Mega-Rad and his highly specialized physical enhancements. Perhaps our opinions could be of more use to him if we keep that in mind. Personally, I think adapting ninjitsu to his style would be very difficult, as would tae kwan do. MMA of course covers a lot of territory, but I do think it is practical to study some ground fighting as you are likely to get grounded in a fight wearing the Powerbocks. As far as kicks go, you can keep them relatively low and still be very effective, because you will eventually be able to put a lot of power behind them. I hink perhaps there is no perfect martial art for what you are doing, because what you are doing is unique. You may have to settle with picking techniques from many different forms that are adaptable to your tools. Best of luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:10 pm

Thanks, man... you might be right. I kind of see a future of just practicing a lot. But pole tricks at least have to be learnable in a dojo around here (or cheerleading classes).

Smile

As far as viability of arts, yeah -- I really think anything can be viable if you develop it. Actually I'm starting to think of standup comedy as a martial art.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:16 pm

Wow, I don't know if I'd call them pole tricks, Mega-Rad, unless you want people stuffing dollar bills into your costume. Razz How long have you been doing stand-up, by the way? Humor can sometimes be effective in defusing tense situations before they escalate, so you may be onto something here.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:39 pm

Uh... good point. But every dollar would go toward fighting crime of course, so maybe there's potential there.

I'm entering month four of doing standup twice a week. My goal is simply 100 hours total. But what happens is I constantly feel like I have to one-up myself each week... so here I am genuinely trying to be a superhero. Smile

It's getting to feel like a religion.

[EDIT -- and a martial art, like I said above. Eventually I'll probably claim it can cure cancer.]
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:30 am

Like Dark Patriot, I'm a long time practitioner of escrima. It's a very effective art. It uses weapons (including the staff) and empty hands. They teach a lot of it to SEALs and government agents.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:50 am

I'd say Tae kwan do for a kicking martial art, Crane style if you want big, dramatic, swooping kicks (yes, I'm imagining with the powerbocks on) and this would be a feat, but Capoeira, since it can be misleading, flashy and a deterrent for criminals. If you were somehow able to learn all these and combine them, I think you'd have the perfect martial art for what you're trying to do. And I could be wrong but I think they teach bo staff in Kendo. You're thinking smart, though, and I like that. You'll be able to keep a distance between your self and the attacker.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:32 pm

The thought of Capoeira on powerbocks really makes me smile... unfortunately I probably couldn't ever do that because my arms aren't supplemented by impact absorbing high tension springs and my legs are supplemented by high tension springs... Smile So I think I'd have a high risk of breaking my arms.

But if I could do it, that would definitely call for the 60s Batman fight theme while I was doing it.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:09 pm

Word... I think I'd do it to this song: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] WARNING: Potentially explicit or offensive lyrics... shield your virgin ears. >¦3
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:51 am

Tengu, sorry I was un-clear. I was basing my input on the info that those power boks would be used and that style would not be so condusive to those tools. Like I said, Ninjitsu relies hevily on balance and rolls, flips etc. That could be hampered by things that add 2 feet to your natural height and add several pounds of thrust to certain movementts of your legs
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:09 am

Dark Patriot wrote:
Tengu, sorry I was un-clear. I was basing my input on the info that those power boks would be used and that style would not be so condusive to those tools. Like I said, Ninjitsu relies hevily on balance and rolls, flips etc. That could be hampered by things that add 2 feet to your natural height and add several pounds of thrust to certain movementts of your legs

No biggie. I just tend to jump to the defensive to fast when it comes to ninjutsu. Too used to way too many people taking jabs at it without taking the time to learn about the real thing instead of what they see in bad movies or anime.

You're right about it not going well with the powerboks. I can picture a bad bloopers video of Mega trying to do the rolls and flips used in ninjutsu now. Although I don't see too many practioners of many martial arts using flips as much in an actual fight scenario since they leave you open to attack without defense if the opponent is fast enough to close the distance and attack while mid flip.

I wouldn't mind learning escrima and combining it with ninjutsu but alas there aren't too many dojos around here that teach it. Mostly Karate, judo and Tae kwon do. The YMCA's near here also teach Tai Chi and what they call Jeet Kune Do. Even though I'd love to learn Jeet Kune Do I don't trust what the Y teaches to be true Jeet Kune Do especially with the fact that they're seeming more money hungry than ever.

I was surprised to find out that I had a Bujinkan Dojo not only in my town but also in a relatively short distance from where I live. Plus there is the Ohio Japanese & Budoken Culture Center downtown that teaches karate, tea ceremony, nihongo lessons and my personal favorite Kenjutsu. They only downside is that it's in the Oregon District which is basically the biggest drinkinjg area with multiple bars in walking distance of each other. Hell the Budoken Center actually is right next door to the most popular one. On the plus side if I start going there and end up getting hurt bad I can go right next door and get drunk to numb the pain lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:53 pm

I agree with what you're doing with the powerboks, and once you get it down I think you would actually be pretty devastating in a fight! While practicing the staff work, I would also work in the suggestion of using the staff as another point of contact to help keep your balance with the kicks.
"thrust, twirl staff, circle left, swing, plant staff, kick, spin around, twirl staff" sounds like a dance, yes, but a potentially very effective one...
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:53 pm

The Grey Man wrote:
"thrust, twirl staff, circle left, swing, plant staff, kick, spin around, twirl staff" sounds like a dance, yes, but a potentially very effective one...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Mw9vaNS3b0s&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Mw9vaNS3b0s&hl=en_US&fs=1?rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:34 pm

lol, hadn't thought of it quite that way, Minuteman, that's awesomely funny! Had all but forgotten that particular cartoon, lol
Seriously though, wasn't thinking of him actually SAYING it, more of an illustrative description.
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:52 pm

I've been adapting some of the stuff I use and now instead of one pole I use two, which are lightweight aluminum stilts ("Walkaroo") brand that basically can be held like tonfa while I'm on the powerbocks. I like them because I can do some cool maneuvers and simultaneous twirls and stuff using them, as well as carry them in two basic configurations (extended toward the ground or flipped up behind my arms). Two extra points of contact are better than one for me.

Currently I thinking of how I could use some more sophisticated actual arm extensions with shock absorbing properties. It could be a very awesome thing.

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:50 pm

I love getting in the ring with people who aren't practical.

Plain Kenpo is worth it for kicks.


"flash" is rarely the best idea
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PostSubject: Re: Curiously Specific Martial Arts Question   Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:41 pm

I've given up on this idea, especially since I switched out what I use as poles.

All I do specifically for this is practice twirling around whatever items more for exercises, but eventually it builds up some muscle memory and I figure out a few showy moves.

Like my switch between "patrol mode" and "rest mode" on powerbocks with stilts in my hands gets a double take and some nervous laughter (occasionally) -- in full gear and especially to people who aren't sure what they're seeing it calls to mind a transformer transforming.

Just yesterday I was doing my Enter the Dragon impression with a pair of tee-ball bats...

"Flash" is rarely the best idea to achieve certain goals. For real fighting even an amateur like me knows to keep it simple. Flash works pretty good for impressing a group of kids or appearing not to be a threat. I expect it to work great on video.
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