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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: krav maga   Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:13 pm

an extreme hand to hand close combat form. used by the israeli special forces. anyone heard of it or considered it? it's especially effective. and violent. but in a life or death situation it can be the difference.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:52 pm

No I haven't, I'll have to check it out.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:23 pm

VERY effective.

Easy to learn and apply.

In my opinion most everyone should study it at least a little bit along with whatever else style they prefer.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:32 pm

I prefer focusing on grappling arts. There are VERY few situations where you would rather injure a person than simply restrain him until the authorities arrive.

If you just like it because its effective at hurting people, then why not just carry pepperspray? There are much more effective ways to do non lethal damage to a person than taking the time and effort, and possibly money, to learn some obscure martial art.
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Jack Shadow

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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:39 pm

Grappling is not always a wise move in a real street fight, especially if there are any edged weapons, or firearms involved. Krav Maga doesn't just teach you how to hurt people, there are also very effective diasarms that are taught that don't always result in injury.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:57 pm

Krav Maga also has a few really good techniques for fighting multiple opponents and fighting from a cornered or surrounded position. Another good reason for studying various arts is so that you can recognize your opponents style (if they are trained) and will know how to counter them. I tend to agree that grappling is always valuable because so many fights end up on the ground. Although Krav Maga looks easy to learn, and it is relatively easy compared to other arts, it still requires a commitment to training to perfect the moves so that they will be effective in a real fight. There is no one perfect style, but you are more effective the more you know. And knowing is half the battle lol!
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:50 pm

Jack Shadow wrote:
Grappling is not always a wise move in a real street fight, especially if there are any edged weapons, or firearms involved. Krav Maga doesn't just teach you how to hurt people, there are also very effective diasarms that are taught that don't always result in injury.

Grappling arts are just as effective against knives. It is not effective against guns, but neither is krav maga. Krav Maga has disarms, but that assumes youll be in arms reach, which you likely will not be. If you are confronted with a gunman, it it my opinion that there is never a reason to attempt a disarm. It is far too risky.

I dunno about you, but im not a ninja or a super spy. If im confronted with a gun, my job is not to still find a way to kick the crap out of him. Ultimately I am nothing but civilian crime prevention. My only job is to restrain, delay or follow a criminal until professional law enforcement arrive, except in cases of immediate danger to myself or others.

Again, just my opinion. We can agree to disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:10 pm

I've heard of it and would like to take classes here but being in Hicksville they have nothing but a couple of Karate schools here. I know that there are a few in the community who have take classes in this and if I'm not mistaken Knight Owl is a certified instructor or something now.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:28 am

Krav Maga isn't about "kicking the crap out of someone". It's about effectively neutralizing a threat to your life as quickly as humanly possible. If someone is pointing a gun or a knife at me with intent to use it, I want to stop that threat quickly. I mean, Krav Maga isn't designed for you to go out and injure people. In fact, you'd probably get your ass handed to you if you LOOKED for trouble using only Krav Maga. Gun disarms are taught specifically to be used when you have a feeling the assailant is ACTUALLY going to use the weapon. Same with the knife disarms. Untrained in either and neither are effective no matter what. Same goes for grappling arts. In fact any art is useless if applied incorrectly.

As a self defense art, I have heard nothing but good things about Krav Maga. I'd rather sprain some maniac's fingers while disarming his gun than worry about not being violent. If I had the money to take Krav Maga classes I would, though I would prefer to take Russian Systema or Combat Sambo classes first...
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:07 am

yeah,its very expensive. there's a studio in northern san diego that teaches it. and its like 200 bucks a month. but you can learn a thing or too from youtube. plus I have several books on the matter.its better than nothing I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:40 am

Teiden wrote:
I'd rather sprain some maniac's fingers while disarming his gun than worry about not being violent.

True, but it you could neutralize a target just as easily without being violent, why not?
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:57 am

See, but I don't view it as violent. If someone is pointing a gun at you, then I'm just not worried about that line. To me, shooting someone or aiming a gun even at someone pulling a gun on you is violent. Meeting a threat to my life/my well being with something that will injure them but keep them alive, is way below what I consider violence. Now if I were to wail on them, then yeah, that would be violent. But that would be outside the scope of what Krav Maga teaches. It basically teaches you to disarm and restrain or disable the threat, though the force used could be mistaken for violence. Honestly, Systema is far closer to being violent than Krav Maga.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:45 am

Teiden wrote:
Meeting a threat to my life/my well being with something that will injure them but keep them alive, is way below what I consider violence.

This sums up my feelings pretty perfectly. I'm typically a very non-aggressive person, and honestly abhor violence. But if you put a gun in my face with intent to pull that trigger, I have no qualms with doing what I can to make you unable to do so.


Last edited by the crimson fist on Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:51 am

I'm with Teiden and Crimson Fist on this one. Anything that will save your or someone else's life and leave the perp able to live is well worth it. I know that I've been studying and practicing different types of martial arts over the last couple of years along with different self defense styles to. Have to be prepared for anything out there on the street. Because depending on anything but your brain and your skills is going to get ya killed. Being able to handle a situation without a weapon at your disposal is going to help you more than knowing how to handle and use any kind of weapon in existence when your unarmed and nothing within easy reach to use as a weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:27 am

! wrote:
[
Grappling arts are just as effective against knives.

This is not entirely true. Most "traditional" grappling arts do not incorporate weapons into their training, they focus on hand to hand combat. If you try to grapple with someone weilding an edged weapon, you're going to get the living crap stabbed out of you. Also when it comes to confrontations with hand guns, most dynamic handgun situations take place (in a police setting) between 5 and 15 feet away from the officer. When you are confronted by an individual on the street with a firearm, the chances are greater that that person will be standing much closer to you since most of the time someone confronting you on the street with a firearm is likely there to rob or assault you.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:35 pm

Most grappling techniques can be applied to control a hand with a knife the same as a hand without a knife. In addition, many grappling arts or arts with grappling techniques, like Arnis, BJJ, and Kenpo, do teach weapon disarms or reversals.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:01 pm

I'm sure you all have looked at some videos to see what its like, but here's a really good one on gun disarm.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:31 pm

Grappling arts and arts that have grappling in them are two different things. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if some kid goes out with only BJJ, judo, or a little aikido training and tries some fancy knife disarm on some thug, he's going to get perforated. I'm spaeking from experience here. When I was a kid I got into an "altercation" with someone I knew. I had quite a bit of experience on martial arts for someone my age. Know what happened? Stabbed in the arm trying to block the downward path of the knife. Scars are great souvenirs.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:50 pm

that sucks that happened to you. one of the things about martial arts is knowing when you can use something, and when it won't work. you can't block every attack, and especially dealing with knives,you are bound to get hurt, regardless of how much training you have. just be glad it was only your arm and not someplace more vital.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:54 pm

Exactly. When you get into a confrontation with an edged weapon, you have to realize that you're probably going to get cut.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:55 pm

Jack Shadow wrote:
Stabbed in the arm trying to block the downward path of the knife.

I literally dont know what kind of block you were using that you still got cut. With all due respect, you must have been doing whatever it was incorrectly. You may have had a lot of experience FOR YOUR AGE, as you say, but if you were younger than you were naturally weaker and slower. Not to be rude, thats just part of being young. And if thats the case, then youll forgive me for not taking you to be a shining paragon of human physical potential and combat performance. Your one experience when you were younger does not stack against many instructors who I know have controlled and disarmed knife wielding individuals easily in real world situations.

Im going to stop posting here because I dont want an argument to turn into drama. You can PM me about this if you want, but theres no guarantee Ill even read it cuz I told you before. We can agree to disagree. We have differing opinions and thats ok. Im not so passionate about the topic of the effectiveness of grappling techniques in disarming knives that I really wanna sit here and spend my time writing about it.

And I didnt say that grappling arts and arts that include grappling techniques were the same. Try reading that post again and maybe youll understand.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:11 pm

No problem, !. As you said, agree to disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:39 pm

Jack Shadow wrote:
No problem, !. As you said, agree to disagree.

I respect you for your response. Have a good day, buddy. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:41 pm

Krav Maga was created to get soldiers ready to fight in a short amount of time. I think it is the best art to get someone good in the least amount of time. I would say it is the best art to study first. Past that there are lots of other arts that will bring your self defense skills to a higher level.
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PostSubject: Re: krav maga   Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:53 pm

i guess it just depends on your goals as a RLSH. One thing that worries me is the way everyone gets sued for anything. Ive literally heard of robbers suing the owners of the homes they robbed and winning. If a guy pulls a knife on me and i sprain his wrist or drop him, is he gonna try to sue me? Will he win? It really could happen, and me being dressed like a super-hero, or in tactical gear, will not at all help my case. This is one reason why i chose the path of least resistance and just try to restrain him.

Another is that I always try to think about how my actions uphold the values that I see as being a part of our community (The RLSH Creed). Its ok in some cases for me to injure a criminal, but if i do it first rather than as a last resort, then am I being a good example? A Role model? Am I upholding the law?

These are questions we all have to answer individually, (your choice of martial art may be affected by your body type, life philosophy, crime fighting style, local laws, etc) so I dont blame you for choosing differently than me, but I hope at least I hope you understand where im comin from...

...Plus I honestly do believe grappling is just as effective Wink
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