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omen

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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:19 am

Uhm… what I stated wasn’t that complex, 204.

In fact, it’s pretty simple: If there is a group choosing to take weapons on a patrol and you don’t agree, then don’t go.

This doesn’t make you less of a RLSH, it just means that you, and those within that group, are not like-minded.

Outside of that point, I have no idea, what you are talking about.

I am not trying to organize anything, 204. I am encouraging brainstorming, discussion, and problem-solving. To be honest, I wasn’t addressing you in my answer above, I was replying to Batman973. He is motivated and forward-thinking, which happens to be encouraging.

Take some time to review his response, 204. Batman973 gave a proposed action as to how he would get started and improve communication.

Now, go back and review the last few posts you just made – you’re busy talking about how things won’t work, how they will fail, how this is division, and everything else negative you can muster.

204, you are proving my point. It is BEYOND easy to complain about something complex and tough, but it is not easy to take the time to invent a new way to solve it - This separates the common from the exceptional.

You simply have to choose which path you want to take.

(As a side note - please try to remember that this entire discussion-thread is NOT about you and you ONLY. It is a conversation in which everyone is invited to contribute)

-Omen, “Heroes aren’t made during good times.” – The Elite Forces Division
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:50 am

Ignoring you're last little side comment, then indeed, you're absolutely right, my mistake. I thought this thread was about you trying to organize the RLSH because this thread of yours is called Organization. I often get the feeling, inaccurate or not, that you try to speak for the RLSH, and speak of the RLSH as a collective unit. 

But now what you just described is basically what I think the RLSH are already doing, which is only proving my point: That we don't need any organizing, and that things work just fine the way they are, so I guess we agree for a change. Smile

You just confused me by throwing around the words "organizing" and "organization". What it sounds like you're really talking about is a rendezvous to network with one another, which I'm all for that; that could be cool. It's just the "organization" word that I have issues with; never had good experiences with that word in the past lol. 

PS: What can I say? I'm a negative person. Life has consistently taught me that people are animals and will always fuck things up in the end, so I've been essentially programmed for years to be skeptical, questioning, cynical, judgmental, paranoid, distrusting and yes, at times a bit "complex". I pretty much think everyone's an asshole deep down and would gladly stab me in the back to save their own skin. Hence, I'm not a team player, which is why I've considered becoming a superhero, not a police officer or a member of the local Neighborhood Watch group or any other kind of "movement". Hell, I don't even associate myself with WWASPS Survivors or any other Residential Treatment Center Abuse "support groups". The whole thing about the RLSH specifically that attracted me all those years ago, WAS the chaos of it all; the diversity and variety and individuality of it all; the precise LACK of organization! 

So....yep....that's why I felt automatically defensive.

I'm kinda sorry if I offended you....but not really, because I'm just an asshole like that lol; life also taught me that apologies don't matter; people make up their minds too fast, because....well, most people deep down are assholes lol.  Razz
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:06 pm

While I won't lie and say what I Or my team does is 100% legal we do get results in keeping certain things and people out of neighborhoods such as drugs gang violence etc but on the flip side I will still also be open to Omen's approach of doing things as well also finding ways to give back to the community so to speak so something like a better organization would be helpful even if it's just to make sure the "activist" as you put it 204 can get to where they need to go to maybe donate supplies or volunteer without being hassled
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:06 pm

We can all work together there isn't a right or wrong way
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:36 pm

Yes; there is a right way and a wrong way; always. I'm a man of science; I don't believe anything is inexplicable; for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and for every cause there must consequently be an effect; one plus one ALWAYS equals two; if it equals three, then the equation was solved the wrong way. 

That's awesome that you and your team get results, and I'd argue that it's specifically because you don't play by the same rules as the rest of Society; you do things YOUR way. In an organization though, those choices are no longer yours to make, because they have to go up a chain of command so to speak before a consensus is reached. Suppose they don't approve of what is NECESSARY for you to complete the objective? Well, you find yourself in quite a pickle! That's why I don't pick sides or join a team, because I know for a fact that eventually there's going to be disagreements and those disagreements could get people killed; I feel like I'd have more liberty working alone, making my own rules, and to hell with the Law. Things sure get done a lot faster that way, wouldn't you agree? Bypassing all the red tape and rules and regulations was a primary motivation to become a superhero, and not the member of an organization. But again, I maybe reading into things too much; perhaps the word "Organization" is being used more loosely here. 

So, you said that an organization could help with activists making donations and volunteering....how, exactly? Are these activists somehow unable to transport themselves from Point A to Point B without assistance from an Organization? Are they unable to find their own causes to fight for or protest? What exactly are they UNABLE to do without the assistance of an Organization? o.O 

And....a bit off topic, but I can't really see how making donations really help; shouldn't people be expected to carry their own weight? That might just be how I was raised though; I've been down and out a lot throughout my life and could have really used a hand, but when one was offered to me, I told them to FUCK OFF, because I don't believe in Charity. If I can't fix my own problems then I see myself as a failure. I'd honestly, genuinely, rather be a THIEF than a beggar. Some people may see that as wrong, but I don't; I believe in working for what I get, like I've always had to, and so it pisses me off when I see people on the street begging for a handout. The only thing I'd possibly consider giving those people is a job application, and I shouldn't even have to give them that! There's this old thing called Darwinism that I'm a strong proponent of; survival of the fittest; only the strong survive. Nowadays the globe is facing a growing epidemic of Over-Population; according to rumors there are even some elitist groups with plans of genocide to help lower the population back down to a number that doesn't race through all our natural resources. It's truly disgusting and horrendous to imagine. How could this horrible tragedy have ever been prevented? By NOT giving handouts and supports to the weakest links in the chain of Society. By letting them go extinct, as hard as it might be to watch. Yes, it's sad, but by taking care of them and coddling them and letting them milk the masses, you're just teaching them that it's okay to be weak and inferior; the same principal behind "give a man a fish, feed him for a day, TEACH a man to fish, feed him for a LIFETIME" One way is easy. One way is hard. ....But there IS a right way....and a wrong way.
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:37 pm

Okay, now that you have established your disdain for ‘organization’ and ‘organizing’ (Teamwork), you are clearly not in an environment of like-minds. While there is nothing wrong with your opinion, I would recommend you find setting that will nurture your frame of thoughts, as well as your aspects of action.

In other words, ‘If there is a group choosing to take weapons on a patrol and you don’t agree, then don’t go’. This also applies in the opposite direction.

If one despises teams, groups, organization, organizing, laws, rules, and regulations ADAMANTLY, then perform some recon and find others of a like-mind and grow your discussion there.

I agree, some laws may be ineffectual, bias, or too ambiguous to attempt following, but effective brainstorming can find loopholes allowing just enough ‘wiggle’ room for aggressive actions to be taken to achieve a given task without it being illegal… especially, if it is meant to help another.

This type of effective brainstorming comes from forward-thinkers, motivated, and working together to solve the challenge presented.

As for donations? Once again, you have your opinion – there is nothing wrong with that, but there is no debate when it comes to actual facts. Team Rubicon started as a small band of inspired helpers and grew to the point in which donations empowered their organization, allowing it to grow and expand all over the world.

If you choose NOT to take charity, and hold such contempt for those that do, why voice it so vigorously, when there has been NO action plan for either of these.

And note, once more you went on a rant about YOU and YOUR feelings towards global population, elitist groups, and inferiority. This discussion had NOTHING to do with any of that… in fact, the entire tirade was nothing more than a distraction.

This is about streamlining and analyzing ways to make a positive task even more efficient and effective: For example, Batman973’s approach to drugs and gang violence within his area. He stated that not all of his team’s actions are 100 percent legal. What if we performed some critical thinking into a few unorthodox methods that could slide their actions under the ‘legal’ umbrella while expanding their effectiveness.

How?

Gauge, as well as a few others on here are excellent with law. They could perform the research to find the areas of concern and the ways around them.

Some of the others on here, such as Discordia and Superman seem to be pretty good with technology. What if Batman973’s team could identify target areas and/or key people for information gathering utilizing Public Records in their area. Information is power and this power can be used for bad or GOOD, equally.

Non-audio body cams are not illegal in some places making them great tools for operations in public areas… as well, as private property with permission. I am quite sure that there are other RLSHs that have the charisma to call targeted owners of said properties to inquire into their desire to have certain ‘detestable’ drug-dealing individuals removed. Having a third party RLSH calling, allows Batman973’s team to maintain their anonymity by never exposing their voices to the local.

THIS is an example of organization and teamwork, which can be done from any place in the world. Planning, brainstorming, and discussion can go a long way when like-minds work together to perform something good.

-Omen
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:51 pm

All excellent points Omen. That 204 is what some forward thinking can do Omen isn't forcing me to change into anything he made some valid points towards ways to help us do what it is we do while brainstorming on ways to keep us out of trouble or at least keep us in the grey area. Not everything needs to be a personal battle of morals and ethics we can come together to increase our effectiveness which is why I'm in a team in the first place even the "real" Batman needed a Robin
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:38 am

omen wrote:
Okay, now that you have established your disdain for ‘organization’ and ‘organizing’ (Teamwork), you are clearly not in an environment of like-minds. While there is nothing wrong with your opinion, I would recommend you find setting that will nurture your frame of thoughts, as well as your aspects of action.

In other words, ‘If there is a group choosing to take weapons on a patrol and you don’t agree, then don’t go’. This also applies in the opposite direction.

If one despises teams, groups, organization, organizing, laws, rules, and regulations ADAMANTLY, then perform some recon and find others of a like-mind and grow your discussion there.

I agree, some laws may be ineffectual, bias, or too ambiguous to attempt following, but effective brainstorming can find loopholes allowing just enough ‘wiggle’ room for aggressive actions to be taken to achieve a given task without it being illegal… especially, if it is meant to help another.

This type of effective brainstorming comes from forward-thinkers, motivated, and working together to solve the challenge presented.

As for donations? Once again, you have your opinion – there is nothing wrong with that, but there is no debate when it comes to actual facts. Team Rubicon started as a small band of inspired helpers and grew to the point in which donations empowered their organization, allowing it to grow and expand all over the world.

If you choose NOT to take charity, and hold such contempt for those that do, why voice it so vigorously, when there has been NO action plan for either of these.

And note, once more you went on a rant about YOU and YOUR feelings towards global population, elitist groups, and inferiority. This discussion had NOTHING to do with any of that… in fact, the entire tirade was nothing more than a distraction.

This is about streamlining and analyzing ways to make a positive task even more efficient and effective: For example, Batman973’s approach to drugs and gang violence within his area. He stated that not all of his team’s actions are 100 percent legal. What if we performed some critical thinking into a few unorthodox methods that could slide their actions under the ‘legal’ umbrella while expanding their effectiveness.

How?

Gauge, as well as a few others on here are excellent with law. They could perform the research to find the areas of concern and the ways around them.

Some of the others on here, such as Discordia and Superman seem to be pretty good with technology. What if Batman973’s team could identify target areas and/or key people for information gathering utilizing Public Records in their area. Information is power and this power can be used for bad or GOOD, equally.

Non-audio body cams are not illegal in some places making them great tools for operations in public areas… as well, as private property with permission. I am quite sure that there are other RLSHs that have the charisma to call targeted owners of said properties to inquire into their desire to have certain ‘detestable’ drug-dealing individuals removed. Having a third party RLSH calling, allows Batman973’s team to maintain their anonymity by never exposing their voices to the local.

THIS is an example of organization and teamwork, which can be done from any place in the world. Planning, brainstorming, and discussion can go a long way when like-minds work together to perform something good.

-Omen

Stop putting words in my mouth; you do it way too much. First off, I don't disdain teamwork, and I never said that I did. I also never said that I disdain organization or organizing; what I said was that I didn't like the word Organizations, plural, not singular. I'm actually very organized myself, but that's NOT the way I was referring to the word here, and you're smart enough to know that. Secondly, there's plenty on here who are of like-minds with me, we just keep our discussions private for the most part; I just have a tendency to speak my mind a lot more freely wihout thought of consequences for speaking my mind. That is literally all I'm doing; offering an alternative viewpoint. Isn't that what promotes discussion, what moves things forward? Speaking of moving things forward, neither yourself or Batman has yet answered my question: How will AN Organization, (emphasis on the word "AN" in case you missed it), help the RLSH be better? By giving us stuff? What kind of stuff? Who pays for it? Am I even on the right track? I have no idea because you WON'T or CAN'T answer that question, offering me no frame of reference for what you're talking about other than what countless RLSH already do, so again, WHAT'S the big idea here, lol? What about it is new or improved in any way? o.O

@Batman: Yes, everything does have to be a personal battle of morals and ethics, particularly if not exclusively for superheroes. Morals, ethics, and philosophies are the proverbial essential bread and butter of superheroes lol. If we don't take the time to hash out all the nitty gritty philosophical details, who else is gonna? That's why I like arguing; it's always enlightening at some point. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:49 am

PS: In regards to Team Rubicon, answer me this: Which would be more brave and bold; the leader of Team Rubicon begging for handouts from strangers to support their own personal agendas in life, OR, alternatively, the leader of Team Rubicon busting their has doing real work to earn the money to support their OWN team, without help from anybody else? 

What sends a stronger message and a better image? Begging, or working?
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:59 am

*busting their ass
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:04 am

Haha, "Father Abraham" had the same basic policy himself; a great leader in his own right; you could say his accomplishments were quite Biblical lol, pun intended. If I recall correctly, he had a strict "no charity" policy founded on little else than direct, and specific instructions from God Almighty, who told him to not accept anything from anyone along his journey to becoming a king of kings so to speak, lest anybody ever be able to say "I made Abram rich." 

Hardly an unorthodox belief/opinion. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:24 pm

Clearly, we are having a disconnect in terminology here. Let me explain as best I can, ‘Charity’ is not bad.

Charity can be a generous action, it can be something given to a person in need, charity can be work, forbearance, or simply a gracious offering to another – whether or not they have the capability of getting something on their own.

Since that is a mouthful, I will make it simple…

What do you think your parents are doing for you by allowing you to stay at their home KNOWING you are a full-grown and capable adult, 204?

Are you currently, ‘busting your ass’ to leave? What type of message and image are you projecting?

Parents taking care of a full-grown adult when there is no need to do so, is called ‘charity’, 204. You eating the food your mom cooks you and enjoying the heat, light, and internet access your parent’s home provide you is called… charity.

In fact, the very knowledge and wisdom others share with one-another on this board, when they don’t have to, is called charity.

Those that offer charity are not weak – charity is not weak. Charity stems from grace and has the unique ability to become a product called graciousness.

And me taking the time to, even, attempt to explain this to you in hopes that you will receive it and change… is the extent of MY graciousness.

204, WE are not here to change your mind, because you won’t.

If you’re going to participate, think before you speak and ponder before you type. I don’t mind answering your fair questions, but your rants are a complete distraction. Your obstructionism and negativity is nothing more than a speed bump to progress - when our speed bumps NEED to be actual challenges we should be drilling to solve.

If you have issues with donations, charity, giving, and whatever the heck you want to complain about, the solution is pretty-dang simple…  

----------
‘If there is a group choosing to take weapons on a patrol and you don’t agree, then don’t go’.
Perform some recon and find others of a like-mind and grow your discussion there.
-------------

This is NOT a debate about YOUR beliefs, 204.

As for Team Rubicon, these guys went to Haiti on their own dollar to help after the earthquake, only four of them could afford to do so. The skill-sharing training? These guys do this on their own free time for no pay – simply because they want to educate others.

When these guys go organize and gain permission from the city to allow them to teardown old condemned houses, in neighborhoods known to have drug-users and sometimes drug-dealers in them, they do this with the own tools and time.

Many times, the very neighborhoods they help have residents that want to give back, and so they donate what they can to the team. Local stores offer tools and supplies as a way of saying, “Thank you.”

This is not weak, 204. In fact, it is heroic – for both team members and those who donate. Please try to check yourself before you speak out the side of your face.

It was actions such as this which afforded the growth of Team Rubicon and other similar organizations.

There is always a way to challenge a concept without being negative. Fair challenges can be worked out among those willing to accept a new direction in thought.

BUT, one who refuses any change to their thoughts is reduced to disagreement always becoming a personal argument.

-Omen
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:37 pm

What do you think your parents are doing for you by allowing you to stay at their home KNOWING you are a full-grown and capable adult, 204?

Are you currently, ‘busting your ass’ to leave? What type of message and image are you projecting?

Parents taking care of a full-grown adult when there is no need to do so, is called ‘charity’, 204. You eating the food your mom cooks you and enjoying the heat, light, and internet access your parent’s home provide you is called… charity.

What my parents are doing by demanding that I stay here despite my being an adult (won't be fully grown until I'm 26 years old), is not actual charity, but you're ignorant of my current living situations so I won't hold it against you for assuming so, but I feel I should clarify: My mother is over sixty five years old, Omen, with a list of medical conditions longer than my forearm, including diabetes, severe arthritis, and tumors all over her body; she's probably going to die soon and has been trying to prepare me for that day. I do NOT let her cook my meals, I cook meals for HER. I bust my ass out in the forest gathering fire wood to provide us with WARMTH so that we don't all freeze to death in the arctic. I'm the one who cleans up after her and tends to her when she's sicker than usual, and I'm the one who's shoulder she cries on when the pain becomes unbearable. Right now, I am THE man of this house, because my father is gone on another hunting trip and won't be back for over two months, my brother moved out of the house a long time ago, as did my sister, who finally got rid of my ex-brother in law who had been beating her for years; took everything in me to not kill that motherfucker, the driving reason being that my family, as things are right now, would not SURVIVE without me. Trust me, I'd LOVE to leave, but I can't because I have to take care of not just this house, but the rest of the Farm because nobody else is here who can do it, and it has to be ready to sell because mom wants to die with the rest of her family in Montana next year. After everything I've done for this family for YEARS, I just can't possibly see "room and board" as "charity". Believe me this, if I didn't pull my own weight around here, my dad would have kicked my ass to the curb a long time ago with the rest of the children. I'm the only one left in good enough physical shape to run around taking care of everything that my parents can't. Dad's in "okay" shape, but he's a strong silent type that wouldn't say he was in pain even if he was, I know for a fact though that his elbows are completely shot from years of carrying heavy freight for the family company, so I've taken over the tougher jobs that he can't/shouldn't be doing anymore. The only one giving any "charity" here, is me. It is not gracious of me, courageous of me, or heroic of me in the slightest, it's just something I have to do because I feel an obligation to look out for my family. I believe in helping those who genuinely need help, but like hell I'd go out of my this way for someone who's perfectly capable of making it on their own steam. 

In regards to the additional info about Team Rubicon, AWESOME! I'd like to see more of that. And yeah, personally if I were them, I would refuse gifts and donations; maybe say something kinda funny/cheesy too like "Helping make the world a better place is all the reward or thanks that I need!" Smile
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:52 pm

It is nice to know you are stepping up to take care of your parents, but I would dare to say, ‘uhm, 204, that is NOT charity’. You are doing EXACTLY what you are supposed to do when it comes to your parents.

Look, I don’t want to get too far off topic, but when you were younger than 18, your parents were ‘supposed’ to take care of you. When our parents become old and lose the ability to care for themselves, their children should work to take care of them. None of that is charity it is simply family-life and life. You're struggle is not unique.

I honestly applaud you for stepping up to the plate to do what you’re doing, but this discussion wasn’t the point I was trying to convey. You know what, if you didn’t get my point with charity, don’t worry about it. You’re not going to change anyway, so this point does not matter.

Now, if we are done entertaining you, can we get back to our topic, please?

~~~~~~~~~~

Moving on…

For the rest of those that are following this thread, I would like to use Batman973’s basic scenario for action, as a foundation to build from. While RLSHs do not have to have a hardcore-formal organization in order to accomplish a task, they can receive GREAT benefits from precision teamwork and skill-sharing.

Let’s introduce the concept of Passive Heroes and Active Heroes (if someone has a better name, I'm more than open to accept it).

Passive RLSHs – can contribute behind the scene acting as support without heavy commitment.

Active RLSHs – can act as the boots on the ground, carrying the frontline (tactical aspects) of missions.

Here’s the clincher, these positions can constantly be in an ebb-and-flow for any lone RLSH or group seeking additional help… or even wanting to contribute. At any given time, someone else might be the boots on the ground as Batman973 can function in a support role by giving advice and leadership.

Back to our ‘made-up’ scenario, I cannot say enough, how powerful a good IT sleuth can be when it comes to snagging critical info from the virtual world of the internet. This type of help can be as complex as digging into a target’s psyche to something as simple as helping Batman973’s team to purchase gear through a third-party pipe, furthering the protection of his, and his team’s, identities.

Equal’s medical skills and field actions can aid in creating a first aid pack that is actually light and real-world helpful – not to mention, I bet he’d have some great ideas for an effective trauma packs also.

This type of wisdom, insight, and guidance can be invaluable for a team on the ground.

-Omen
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:11 am

And  honestly that's all it takes different people pooling their skills together to help one another
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:06 pm

I agree.
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:53 pm

Then you see why and how organizing within the RLSH can benefit everyone involved 204
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PostSubject: Re: RLSH - Organizaing   Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:33 am

I do.
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