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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:09 am

Interesting. I'll have to look into this. Thanks for sharing. Yes, I'm skeptical. Pretty hard to trust the New York Times after all the other lies they've spun, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of a doubt.

I knew the ACA and Obamacare was the same though; people have been asking for an Affordable Care Act for years and years. Obama pretended to give it to them. It wasn't affordable and only got more expensive. Not to mention the infamous broken promise designed to convince people to go along with it . "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". 

Too many complications with ObamaCare. Too many people at risk if ObamaCare disappears too. That's why the general consensus is to repeal and replace immediately. Emphasis on Replace. A new "Affordable Care Act". Which, I'm willing to bet, will be more beneficial to America than ObamaCare was. 

Thanks for sharing nonetheless; I'm interested in researching it. Smile 


--204
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:22 am

I also don't like that it was forced upon people. I think I recall a while back my folks getting something in the mail from the hospital or something saying that they were no longer eligible for their current plan or the doctor was leaving or changing things or something like that, but that they'd put mom on ObamaCare because she qualified for senior citizen status. Now I wonder if maybe that had something to do with why we now only have a couple hundred bucks or so in our family's bank account. Heard about other families who were forced onto the streets by ObamaCare too; never looked much into it, but you've inspired me. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:29 pm

Well, politics is mostly about counteracting human stupidity, so forcing citizens to follow laws is usually a good thing.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:31 pm

Emphasis on the usually part, lol.

Stalin said the same thing when it comes to healthcare. Socialism LOOKS appealing on the surface, but in practice, it has always failed. 

Healthcare and BASIC laws that actually help and protect people are two separate issues. People should not be allowed to FORCE you to BUY ANYTHING. That is just called STEALING.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:34 pm

https://fee.org/resources/socialized-health-care-the-communist-dream-and-the-soviet-reality/
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:48 pm

Last time I checked Trump/ the Republican Party want to eliminate Obamacare they never used the word replace tho I wonder why it's not like it effefts them they're millionaires and can afford health care they just don't want to be taxed for Obamacare a lot of people will not be able to get any medical care if that happens
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:01 pm

Type into Google "Repeal and REPLACE". Trump has said it over and over and over again.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:52 pm

2 0 4 wrote:
Healthcare and BASIC laws that actually help and protect people are two separate issues.
Healthcare DO help and protect people.


204 wrote:
People should not be allowed to FORCE you to BUY ANYTHING. That is just called STEALING.
Or taxes.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:32 am

GUNS help and protect people everyday too! Lol. It would STILL be WRONG to force EVERYONE to buy a gun! WHY?! Because NOT everyone can afford it! For my family right now, buying a gun would RUIN US.

Healthcare is more expensive than a gun. Forcing EVERYONE to buy healthcare would ruin MILLIONS of people, and IT DID. 

And the President said he's going to lower taxes and make it easier than ever to build a business or get a job. Does that sound like a bad thing to you? If not, let's unite and support our President and HOPE he follows through like he has been doing on the other campaign promises. We're stuck with him. We all have to accept that and work together on making the country better than when he found it. Blocking him at every turn and hating on him at every opportunity only divides us further and hurts the country. We have to find a middle ground somewhere. To me, it doesn't seem like the majority of the Democratic Party has any interest whatsoever in working with Trump on anything at all. 

Except for tonight maybe; there was a little hope when parts of the democratic party stood up and half-heartedly clapped during the President's Address to Congress. For the most part though, the Democratic Party remained seated and sullen and were booing, moaning, groaning and giving the President a thumbs down. Like literally; not figuratively lol. I especially thought it humorous when they all moaned at the Presidents new VOICE Office at the Department of Homeland Security. It's for the victims of (illegal) immigrant crime. Like seriously; whose side are they on? The mother whose child was murdered by an illegal immigrant? Or the illegal immigrant who killed an American son? Their moans speak volumes, and from where I'm standing, they do NOT appear to be on the side of America.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:17 am

Healthcare is real protection, firearms is only a way to feel powerful.

Healthcare is expensive because the followers and passives made it that way. And it will stay that way, because the people belive the power lies in wall street, and the only power they can ever achieve is owning a gun.



You politicians willingly let the cooperatins fuck you, and all you do is focusing on the stupid principle of gun ownership, that is a lot more likely to kill you or your spouses than proctecting you from anything.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:56 pm

It's a shame the mere threat of taking their guns can cause such a rebellious mindset "Obama wants ma gunz" but they were cool with them taking away Obamacare who needs healthcare when I gots ma gun and pick up truck
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:12 pm

This isn't about guns. This is about people being forced to buy a product that they do not want. 

If you're going to freak out about guns, (and not look at the statistics of citizens who use firearms to protect themselves every single day, multiple times a day, not to mention all the times they're used by police and military to protect us), fine then, let's use another product that helps people: Cars. 

Should everybody be forced to buy a car

You're trying to tell me that it's okay to FORCE people into business dealings that they DON'T want to be a part of. You're going to need one helluva convincing argument to ever make me think that's an OKAY thing to do. I would hope most thinking, moral individuals would know right away that such a notion is just plain damn wrong

THE MAFIA DOES THE SAME THING. 

Nice try at changing the subject. 
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:22 pm

Extortion and the Second Amendment are two very different things. If anything, the Second Amendment is in place to protect against Extortion. The Second Amendment isn't just about guns either. Might want to take a look at it in private when you get the chance. BUT FOR NOW....please answer this question:

Why do you condone extortion?
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:46 pm

Because if people wasn't forced to pay their taxes, I'd find myself without a police force, fire brigade, hospitals, clean water, armed forces, political system, independent press, schools and day care for my children, nursing homes for our old. The roads would be filled with unfit drivers, abandoned car wreks and potholes. If I needed to take a shit, I'd be burying it in my yard, and my job wouldn't exist. For the sake of the rest of my family, my autistic son would have been abandoned in the woods, or had his own six foot chain in the garden. My father in law would be dead (heart attack), my brother in law would be deader (cancer) and my wife would be insane (married).

And think about all the politicians! It's been bad enough haing them fuck up our lives from the city hall and the parlament. Without taxes, they would be making havoc in the streets!

I'm Equal, and I condone extortion.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:47 pm

We're not talking about taxes either. We're talking about Obamacare

Why should people be forced into buying Obamacare? What if they can't afford it? Are YOUR Tax dollars going to pay for it? The same tax dollars that are so precious for YOUR family? How does that make any sense at all? Would it not be easier to just not force people to buy shit that they do not want in the slightest?!
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:50 pm

Why or why not?
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:35 am

I would like to add something to the discussion and I invite it to be drilled because it would further our understanding from different points-of-view.

First of all, ‘YES’ there is a ‘distinct’ group out there that will NEVER accept Obamacare mainly because of its name, hence I will refer to it as the Affordable Care Act (ACA) to ease the tension.

Basically, the ACA provides healthcare for all Americans. There are Pros and Cons that are attached to this new law, which is the source of our debate.

Pros:

- Americans with preexisting conditions can’t be charged more or denied treatment.
- There are no more annual or lifetime dollar limits on care.
- The marketplaces subsidize premium costs and out-of-pocket costs.
- A single risk pool is created giving the individual and small group markets the same buying power as large group markets.
- New rules and regulations stop insurance companies from making unjustified rate hikes.
- Women cannot be charged more than men.
- The amount insurers can discriminate price based on facts like age is restricted.
- All plans must have minimum benefits regardless of cost.
- Medicaid is expanded meaning free or low-cost insurance for more Americans.
- Young adults can stay on their parents plan until 26.
- Cheaper care for seniors and less costs for hospitals.

Cons:

- Everyone needs to participate for it to be effective, hence the mandate by law
- You can be fined if you don’t have insurance
- Taxes will increase because of the ACA
- Businesses are cutting employee hours to avoid offering insurance
- Insurance companies’ profit margins have decrease, causing them to disengage from the program
- Premiums have increased with the loss of providers

These are the key areas of contention with this topic. The reason this argument goes in circles is because of a phenomenon we call, ‘Crap don’t matter to me, until crap matters to me!'

~~~~~~~~~~

Most people don’t care about their car tire, until they get a flat. When their tire is flat and they’re stuck on the side of the road, all they want is that tire fixed. Once they get the car in the shop and the mechanic tell them they can’t fix it, the owner tends to get upset and… sometimes they direct their rage at the mechanic.
When told a replacement, tire is needed, is when the owner actually cares about the name, type, and cost of the new tire and services. When the price comes back high and there is no negotiation, this is when the owner really becomes upset as he has to beg, borrow, and steal to get his car running again.
After the car is back on the road, he couldn’t give a crap about tires or the next guy he’s passing broken-down on the side of the road with a flat tire.

~~~~~~~~~~
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:40 am

I have a few wealthy clients, and I have spoken to them about the ACA and received varied opinions, often split between Morality and Finance.

First of all, NONE of them care about the ACA on a personal level. They can, more-than-afford healthcare without it, in that aspect, I was ‘coldly’ told, “It’s a working-class issue’. Basically, they described it, “as a fight for strong-moral people willing to cut off their nose in spite of their face”.

Everything changed when we spoke about business. I was told this was the area they didn’t like because it truly effected the bottom-lines of their profits. Out of all five of my clients, only one of them had no issues with it. He is a first-generation millionaire.

He said that he didn’t mind paying extra for his people because he felt blessed by his success. He never thought he would have become what he became.

To be fair, those I spoke to are FAR from the average voices that represent the general masses. My clients are in the professional services (Medical Facility Owner, 2 Attorneys, Florist Broker, and Architect).

On a personal level, I can understand the stance against the mandate, but I weigh the benefits against the punishments, and inclusion wins every time when compared to exclusion.

Before the ACA, lest we forget, healthcare prices were EXTREMELY unaffordable and if your ailments were deemed too serious or went too long, you could be dropped from insurance, legally and without question.

For the middle-class and below, serious injury or sickness with basic insurance, felt like a death sentence or bankruptcy waiting to happen. Watching a parent waste away to cancer is no joke, especially when they are dropped from insurance. Watching an injured family member spend their last for treatment and medicine, doesn’t create smiles in the household, in fact it creates the opposite.

Under the ACA, even with the increased premiums, no matter what… each and every American reading this, RIGHT NOW can get healthcare and treatments regardless of their history… and NOT be dropped.

This helps children who worry about the health of their parents, as well as parents who worry about the finances of their adult children.

Is the ACA perfect? NO! Absolutely NOT!! Can it be improved? This is where we need to come together, because the answer is YES!

The big insurance companies want to go back to the way things used to be. Their profit was not made in health care. Their profits are made by those paying for 'ACCESS' to health care.

We should expect to hear the word, ‘ACCESS’ move to the forefront of all discussions when it comes to any other plans compared to Obamacare.

-Omen
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:50 am

It sounds like you agree with Trump on the ACA. He thinks the ACA has a lot of problems as it is, and that some changes are in order...in order to improve it. He's not doing it alone; he's bringing in Democrats and Republicans alike to hash out all the details and find something they can all agree on. 

Me? Personally, my only concern is for other American citizens, because the entire issues is actually irrelevant for me as an individual, because being a Native American Indian, I have a little card that grants me free health insurance; I've never had to pay a dime to have doctors fix me up...huh, random thought; just sometimes wonder if my Nativity was a part of the reason the WWASPS kidnapped me; lots of free money to be had. 

Anyhoo...indeed, there are cons. 

To the cons that you listed, to the best of your knowledge, what would all the combined consequences be as a result? o.O
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:53 am

The domino effect.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:37 am

I would not say that I necessarily agree with the direction the President is choosing to go, Repeal-and-Replace (R-n-R). I lean more towards Repair and Enhance (R-n-E).

R-n-P involves scrapping what exists and starting from scratch going in a different direction. R-n-E works with what exists to fix the most problematic issues, while upgrading the other components to fall better in-line.

Honestly, I think the deep-rooted challenges with the ACA is made up of three components:

The name – OBAMAcare: this law is one of the largest and most endearing pieces of war in the last 60 to 70yrs. Nothing on this level, since the birth of Medicare and Medicaid has been this large, and impact so many. It is a true legacy that will place the creator(s) in the history books for the next hundred years or more.

What started as a derogatory slur and attack name for the ACA, survived and became the mainstream name which was actually embraced and added to history. The new administration is desperate to create something to take credit and change the name of this service… in fact, I don’t think they will yield, until they can create something that can hold the title, ‘TRUMPcare’.

What’s so sad, is we will see masses rallying around this title (Brand), even if it is a lesser product and/or it hurts them more.

Another challenge for the Republicans is the very thought of a piece of legislation of this caliber passing, not only, without their support… but also without their blessing and through their obstruction. This has created injury to their image.

One of the biggest challenges, surround the fear of the average voter gaining awareness, if their new product pales in comparison to the ACA. If the concept of ‘paying for ACCESS’ is not embedded and accepted by the masses, along with the new costs, this will ALSO damage the Republican brand. As soon as the first segment of Americans begin to die and/or complain about the loss of insurance services and medicine, those involved in the new R-n-R product will be under pressure and possibly lose their jobs.

Basically, the ACA is an excellent foundation product that needs Repairs-and-Enhancements. What we are experiencing in reality is almost all POLITICS.  

This is one of those rare occasions, in which teamwork, unity, and collaboration will be critical from both parties, as well as the American people to succeed… but we must first choose how this process will begin. Will it be Repeal-and-Replace or Repair-and-Enhance?

-Omen
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:55 pm

2 0 4 wrote:
We're not talking about taxes either. We're talking about Obamacare

Why should people be forced into buying Obamacare? What if they can't afford it? Are YOUR Tax dollars going to pay for it? The same tax dollars that are so precious for YOUR family? How does that make any sense at all? Would it not be easier to just not force people to buy shit that they do not want in the slightest?!
We're not talking about Obamacare, we're talking about extortion.
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:34 pm

Omen: That actually sounds like Trump's plan. He scared the shit out of a lot of Republicans when he said that he was going to keep parts of Obamacare. Except the part the extorts people for their money, (I'm looking at you, Equal). 

I think you're right about the name, Omen. The majority of Americans see Obama as a stain on the pages of American History; makes perfect sense that they wouldn't want a constant reminder of their mistake in electing him. I don't think it'll turn into Trumpcare though; the President has been simply calling it the Affordable Care Act. Personally though, I don't give a shit what it's called. If R&E works and doesn't hurt people, then great. Gonna be harder to sell with the same title, but Republicans would get over it if they could see it was a logical plan at long last. 

And Republicans and Democrats have supported this type of legislation for decades, Omen; Republicans aren't trying to pusback on healthcare altogether. They just don't want to end up on the streets and get fined and extorted. People don't like to buy shit they don't want. 

Nancy Pelosi was famously quoted in referring to Obamacare when it was first coming out: "We have to pass the law first, before you can see what is in it." LMAO. How the fuck does that NOT sound suspicious as hell?! Guess what. Since it's passing, the Obama Administration has added TWENTY THOUSAND PAGES OF NEW REGULATIONS, associated with the law. 

Twenty thousand fucking pages Omen. TWENTY THOUSAND! .....BURN that shit lmao. XD

If you can't friggin' FIT AN IDEA, on ONE piece of paper, it's just too goddamn long and complicated to even risk in my opinion. That piece of nonsensical bullshit was specifically designed to be a TRAP. Which is why I'm more for Repeal & Replace. 

Donald Trump is pretty great, but I don't think he's great enough to read twenty thousand fucking pages. That's like trying to read FIFTEEN BIBLES! 

It is insane!

In my opinion, here is Obama's TRUE Legacy:

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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:40 pm

He walked all over the Constitution, made his own rules. Made HIS party happy, and FIST-FUCKED the working man on the bench. Picture says it all. 

ANY man can make a Legacy. But the Legacy makes the man. Obama was a bad President. That's his legacy. 

I think Democrats are still just butt-hurt over losing the election, because they can't bring any logical reason for why they are trying to undermine the President at every fucking turn. 


--204
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PostSubject: Re: OMEN'S FAKE NEWS   Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:26 am

Uhm… I don’t really want to get into a war over Presidents, 204, but you do know that President Obama is ranked as one of the BEST Presidents in history, right?

Out of the last 43 Presidents, he came in at 15th. He will go down as one of the greatest Presidents this century, as well as the last. He has 75 months of continual job growth, created a standard so high, it probably won’t be reached for another 50 to 100 years.

With a smaller more precise military, he revolutionized warfare with pinpoint attacks and FAR fewer deaths than most Presidents serving during stages of War.

He has only been married once, in comparison to our current Presidnet, to a woman that is arguably as great or greater than ANY other First Lady in history. His daughters are from the same mother and he has one of the most scandal free terms (two terms) of all.

Look, I don’t want to get into comparing President Obama and President Trump too much, because this would simply turn into an argument in which neither one of us would yield.

To make things simple, there is a basic test that we often use to figure out if someone, something, or some action is suspect – I am so sorry to go this direction again, but it can’t be ignored – we call it the ‘Racial Litmus Test’.

Please ask yourself this and you do NOT have to post your answers.

If President Obama was married three times and had children from multiple women, would you support him?
If President Obama refused to release his Tax Returns and had NEVER served in the government while running for President, do you think you would have supported him?
If he would have referred to White people as ‘Bad Rednecks’ and described them as incestuous, with some of them being good… would you have cheered for him?
What if he would have described White serial killers and mass murders as, ‘Radical Christian Terrorists’?

If President Obama was recorded getting off of a bus, boasting about grabbing a woman’s genitals and threatened to sue them for coming out against him, would you support him?
What if he was on national radio, calling his daughter hot, and bragged about her breasts on talk radio?
How would you feel if President Obama would have questioned Donald Trump’s lineage, saying that he was the child of a Nazi and probably not from this country?
What if he became your President and never apologized for his actions, nor took responsibility for many of them?

If you were to remove the names and Races of the two Presidents, you and I are discussing, and place their histories, choices, characteristics, traits, backgrounds, and actions on equal sheets of paper…
Who would you choose to follow?

No President is perfect. No human is perfect. Our conversation should NOT be limited to Obama and Trump, it should be about the larger challenges, the title of President can fix.

You are entitled to your opinion of President Obama, as I am entitled to my own about the current President. But, my discussion is about policies and not the individual.

-Omen
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