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PostSubject: Pacification   Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:22 am

Hey; hot-dog I think I found my inner pacifist again! Anyone remember years ago when I first started and hated violence of any kind? It was quite a while ago; even I'd forgotten about it until recently when I started feeling it again. 

The general idea behind "Pacification" in my mind is to safely and harmlessly eliminate a threat. Could be all that is needed is verbal de-escalation strategies. In situations where people are actually  getting violent towards you/trying to hurt you, legally speaking, you're allowed to use as much force as they are, but I want to hold myself to an even higher standard than that now as part of truly earning the title of superhero. So with violent attackers, you can block, redirect, grab, etc, (just no punching/scratching or whatever; aim to not leave a single mark on them; the goal should be that everyone goes home safely (or to jail safely, in the case of the criminal). 

Krav Maga has a lot of great blocking techniques and grappling techniques and weapon disarming techniques; a few are a bit more brutal, but a large majority of them can be performed with little risk to yourself or the third party/attacker.

High School Wrestling, Judo, and Aikido will also be helpful. 

And top it off with "NSD/Nonviolent Self Defense" (google it). 

Not to mention that with proficient training in extrasensory cognitive abilities, one would be able to stand an even greater chance of being able to take on greater numbers of assailants without having to hurt any one of them; like dancing between the raindrops. Getting in the void/Zen like state of mind while under pressure. Meditation, yoga/pilates, and diet/health and nutrition also will all contribute to a role in your overall capacity to be able to AFFORD not having to resort to violence, where a lesser trained individual would probably feel no choice but to either hurt them, flee from them, or freeze in terror.

The "Tactics and Self Defence" section of this site was also fairly thought provoking on the possibilities of Peace: www.virtuescience.com 



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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:17 am

Psychology and Sociology along with Kochojutsu (Asian Psychological Warfare; supposedly Ancient and adopted by CIA NOCs/Non-Official Cover Operatives/Secret Agents) Kochojutsu is the art of being able to do virtually anything with virtually nothing; like the wing of a butterfly causing a tsunami half way around the world. Another adage goes:

"For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. Fore want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of rider, the battle was lost. For want of the battle, the kingdom was lost.....and all for the want of a horseshoe nail." 

Kyushojutsu is different though; it can be easy to get them mixed up/confused with one another sometimes. Kyushojutsu is the art of Pressure Point Combat, and there are around 430 total pressure points on the human body. Some cause pain, some just cause strange sensations, and others used in conjunction with another can put someone to sleep in an instant just like the Vulcan neck grip. Beddy-bye-time! XD

Next; Gentle Chokes. These usually just cut off blood supply to the brain but without putting too much pressure on their throat or neck which would be very painful for them; a lot of gentle chokes won't even leave a mark when performed correctly; asphyxiating them any longer than 20 to 25 seconds is getting into a danger zone though where possible brain damage, permanent injury or even death can occur.

So, in extreme situations, I don't consider [most forms of] Kochojutsu, Kyushojutsu, and Soft/Gentle Chokes a violation of my re-newly adopted number one rule: Do no harm.

Like the Doctor's code. It should be my duty to find a way to stop crime and injustice without ever having to harm someone.....there's always a way.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:39 am

It's impossible to safely eliminate a threat. By definition a threat is unsafe, but your general idea here is a good one. You are generally allowed to use one level of force above what your assailant is using, not merely equal force as you suggested. And when dealing with multiple attackers, a peaceful resolution is highly improbable. That said, BEFORE an attack begins, there is much you can do to prevent an attack, and with no physical force whatsoever. This is a skill that must be learned, luckily there are many resources for training. As for pressure point combat, it takes years of training and education to learn to safely manipulate these on a person lying still, so imagine trying to apply them to a dynamic of fighting with inadequate training. I like your philosophy John, and peaceful solutions are always preferred, but you need all the tools in your toolbox.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:54 pm

I see violence as justified only as a last resort, and when used to stop or prevent other violence. If I end up in that kind of situation I'm honestly not too concerned about minimizing harm to the non-innocent party, and I'm comfortable doing whatever I need to do to keep them from hurting others, provided it's nonlethal and not permanent. The "one level above" rule Gauge brought up is a good one. Rousseau regards attempting to do harm to the innocent as a self-punishing crime because it authorizes just about anyone to intervene and do similar harm to the attacker to stop it.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:41 pm

Now I would love to be able to go along with the crowd and say total non violence is the way to go. Sadly in real life it doesn't work worth squat. To the predators in the world a totally non violent person is spelled victim.  I know this for a fact as in my earlier life I was totally non violent. As a result I was constantly being attacked and pounded upon. Then I had a growth spurt and learned self defense. A few schoolyard type fights later to reestablish my place in the local pecking order and I had a much more peaceful life. I figured out later on that what you can do and are capable of when put to the test leaves some sort of mark on you. Somehow folks especially possible predators pick up on that mark. Odd as it may seem the more of a bad ass you are the less likely you are to have to deal with violence as no one wants to start up with someone they perceive as being able to kick their ass. Your ability to deescalate a situation seems to be in direct proportion to your ability to defend your self and those with you. A very sad commentary on the human condition but a realistic one none the less. But then we have to deal with things the way they really are not just how we wish they were.

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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:47 pm

While talking can't solve every problem, verbal de-escalation does work to a degree. It won't work too well on someone who just wants to fight, but for those who have been angered by an external stimulus, you can get them to see reason. But it requires training, so I do agree with some of the spirit of this post, and appreciate the good intentions of the author, but you must know where the line is.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:07 pm

If you're worried about using undue violence when you're trying to protect yourself, the Marine Corps Martial Art Program addresses this issue sufficiently. Technically, it is a martial art, with ranks and everything, and they have different types of techniques for different levels of threat. I consider myself a peaceful kind of guy, as well, but if someone's life is in danger, and there's no other solution, I'll do whatever's necessary to save innocent lives. Sometimes, all it takes is a good bluff; sometimes, you really have to pull out all the stops.

When it comes to such situations, it's important to be in your right mind. Like my father always said, I don't know how to fight, but I do know how to hurt people; for me, it took a lot of training and study, and learning a variety of other methods that didn't involve getting into a fight. That doesn't mean I don't stay competent in handling myself in a fight; it's not like they have a legitimate app that people use to post when and where they're going to jump someone, after all...
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:01 pm

@Gauge. Good point; I should have said harmlessly eliminate a threat as opposed to safely. Generally I may be allowed to use one level of force higher than them, but laws don't make things morally right for me. I'm starting to see violence as a pandemic of sorts; looking at the big picture of it. If I use violence, regardless of the situation, then I'd also be contributing to "world violence". I agree; one needs to have the right tools in the toolbox. I have some of the tools, but would like to get more. Though I disagree that it'll take "years of training". At least for me; I learn things pretty fast. I have a book on Kyushojutsu; been locating and memorizing pressure points for a while; finding them on myself and seeing what kind of movement is most effective on them. It hurts; but it's not inherently harmful; usually not even a mark but if there is it's just a little red mark that fades away within a minute or so. Might take years to memorize ALL of the pressure points, but not to become knowledgeable enough to be able to handle yourself. Just a few months of studying anything can give you a nice little tackle box of life-saving tools. Couple that with some of the basic Krava Maga techniques and disarms and combine that with wrestling, one should have little excuse for having to injure someone. And if a life's in danger I'd just go right to choking them out as gently as I could; if they had a gun though I'd take that away first and try using that instead. Most people become more agreeable at gun point. I don't have to shoot them though; if they aren't afraid of dying though I'll probably just end up going with the original plan of choking them out after securing the weapon; tossing the magazine in one direction and the gun in the opposite direction. If he whips out a knife just grab that from him too and throw it away into the ground. Can't imagine he should have too much left in those pockets before it's finally just me and him haha; and then it should be an easy matter of tying him up into a pretzel before softly asphyxiating him. XD 

From my perspective, that's all nonviolent; "violence" in my mind involves stuff like breaking things, injuring people, leaving long-lasting/permanent marks or scars on them, throwing stuff, excessive amounts of pain/broken pains, that sorta stuff; that's all on my "do not do anymore" list now. There's little need for it.

@Superman: A totally non-violent person may look like a victim, but that doesn't mean they are one. People can be non-violent while still being perfectly able of defending themselves. Also, Science, Technology, and Medicine have all come a very long way; in this day and age, violence should be unacceptable. We're evolved enough for peace, it's just that not enough people genuinely care about peace. That's the real sad/unfortunate truth. I feel what needs to happen is for more people to become rolemodels by taking vows of nonviolence and finding new ways to overcome violence without using it themselves. Imagine what the world could be like if people spent as much time thinking about how to pull off peace as they do thinking about how to destroy and kill better? 

Killing and hurting people is easy. Fighting without fighting is harder, but more rewarding. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:42 am

As a rule I am nonviolent and would love if everyone else was as well. But here in the lower 48 it doesn't work that way. You miss part of what I am trying to say. Choosing to be non violent and being incapable of being violent are 2 very different things. When I was incapable of violence and didn't know how to properly defend myself I was constantly being attacked. It wasn't so much that I was disliked as it was I made such a fine  target they couldn't resist. Now that I am capable of violence when I need to be and can defend my self I lead a much more peaceful life. Now I'm not exactly sure what to call it. Aura, Vibes, Body language, all kinds of names out there but there is something subliminal that marks a person  as someone not to be messed with and the predators of the  world pick up on it. You can look at 2 folks the same basic size and condition etc. and tell somehow which of the 2 is the more dangerous in a fight. Some subliminal thing kind of like handicapping horses before a race.  I know it may sound weird but its a real thing. All manner of weird things in the world. Now reasonably resolving conflicts is the preferred way to go. But to do that you need 2 reasonable folks maybe willing to compromise. Sadly in todays world there are a lot of very unreasonable people and would be thugs that only respect a show of force. It's been my experience that no one can ignore a smack up side their head if delivered with sufficient force. Works the same on everyone no matter what their race, color, creed, religion, personal belief system,  or national origin. While like you I wish the world was a better safer place I take things the way I find them and deal accordingly.

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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:18 am

Ah; I see what you mean about the vibe thing now. I know I'm fully capable of violence; I don't just want to be nonviolent because I want the world to be a better place; that's definitely a part of it, but I'm mostly just sick and tired of violence. Grew up in a violent/alcoholic household and spent most of my teen years in a violent/abusive boys home; normal kids my age may like the idea of violence; kicking butt and taking names, but I'm just tired of it. My elbows and knuckles are scarred and deformed, scars from three different surgeries, scars from teeth and shanks/homemade knives, back's all messed up from being thrown through a wall and bodyslammed onto cement more times than I can count; not even gonna list all the scars I've just gotten from working wildfires since I was seventeen that doesn't really count as violence. I want to give up violence because I'm just sick and tired of it; there's gotta be better ways to go about things. 

Like real-life super-powers. I got a few books that have put things into a more scientific perspective that I could visualize and wrap my head around; I know "miracles" are possible because I've seen them and pulled off one myself; I can do a few little tricks, but only once when I was thirteen did I ever pull off something that should have been virtually impossible; only a 1% chance of success. Sadly I've fallen more out of touch with that part of myself but am looking to get back into it after I've been clean and sober for at least 28 days; one's mind, body and spirit have to be mastered before one can start knocking people out with just their thoughts and flying and stuff. 

I fell into the same trap most adults do though and started getting skeptical, with only that one memory from when I was thirteen to help give me hope. "The 1 Percent Moment". I could hardly believe it; nothing quite like that feeling and I'd give anything to feel that again; like I could do anything if I really put my mind to it. I think I'm slowly re-discovering my faith though; like you said; all manner of weird things in the world. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:38 am

One of my teachers described training martial arts as "fighting to stop fighting" because it does develop that vibe around the practitioner. Another teacher told me she was asked if she ever used self-defense to save her life, and she answered, "Every day", because the mindset does so many little things to keep you from having to fight in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:10 am

True. And traditional martial arts are just great exercise too; I still want to seek professional training in a wide variety of martial arts even though I may not use all of them. Ideally I'd want to just take bits and pieces from each one to come up with a versatile self defense system that doesn't hurt anyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:02 am

The thing with non-violent self defense is that unless your attacker just gets frustrated and gives up, you are fighting a losing battle. Blocking will not win a fight. You will need to use painful deterrents to fighting. Joint locks and holds are useful, and this is where the wrestling skills you seem to favor will come in handy. Of course, you must use good judgment. Wrestling one opponent is practical, but if there's five attackers, it's not always the wise path.
And please explain knocking people out with your thoughts and flying. "and stuff."
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:36 pm

Geoff Thompson has a good book on non-violent solutions to confrontation called "The Art Of Fighting Without Fighting: Techniques In Personal Threat Evasion".

And for a book with a lot of arrest techniques, I'd recommend Brian Eustace's "The Police Self Defence Handbook".
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:13 pm

Thanks Cornelius; I'll look into those.

@Gauge: I have no interest in winning fights. I have an interest in keeping people safe though; all I have to do for that though is keep the perp(s)busy long enough for the would-be-victim to make a run for it and get a safe distance away. Maybe the perps will get tired/frustrated and just give up on me; that would be ideal. If I'm the only one in danger though, I can always just run away and hide. That keeps me safe, keeps them safe, and the damsel in distress is long gone and safe, so really, my work there is done, and nobody got hurt. That reminds me: Parkour/Freerunning will also come in handy to win foot chases and outrun "bad guys".

For the second part, lol, I'll do my best to explain, but you might not understand. The first thing you should know is that everything around is is energy; including you and me. It's like Eisenstein's infamous equation depicting that matter can be converted into energy and energy can be converted into matter; this also ties in with is Unified Field Theory; a concept many great minds throughout history have come up with. In addition to this "universal energy" in deifferent states of existing; like water can also be vapor or ice, there's also a smaller field of energy surrounding people; you've probably heard it called "the aura", or auric-field.

Some think this is what sometimes gives people what appear to be psychic/superhuman abiltiies such as sensing danger before it happens and even picking up on the energies and thoughts of another person. You can also draw in more energy from your environment with certain breathing exercises and techniques to charge-up your aura, and even make your aura grow larger than it started out; most peoples auras are typically oval shaped and extended about three feet in every direction, but the true mind/miracle masters can enlarge their auras to over 20 feet in diameter! Getting onto that level is where one can start ding some pretty incredible things, including flying. How? Well think of it as a baloon (your aura). With practice, you can control your aura just as easily as your own arm and you can change the properties of it; for example making your aura lighter than air, or visualizing your aura like a ball of thistle down, (ancient monks would meditate on 'the thought of thistle down' and sometimes floated; thistle down is like a seed with a bunch of little tendrils coming off of it; like hairs. The wind catches these little fibers and carries the seed which looks like it shouldn't be able to leave the ground). With enough training in breathing techniques, visualization, and subtle energy work, anything is possible. The laws of physics apply to a physical world, but this world is not physical in the traditional sense; it's dynamic and consists of nothing but energy. That's been a big help in overcoming my own skepticism. Helps the most when you've already seen "miracles" happen and know that they exist; then it's just a matter of trying to figure out how on earth it is possible. And when considering Einsteins Theory and Quantum Mechanics, such feats suddenly seem far more achievable with the right practice. A few good books you should look into are "Miracle Mastery", "In Your Dreams", "Practical Teleportation", "Yoga Sutras of Patanjali", and "Thought Vibration" all supplied by David DeBold at www.allthingspsychic.com.

I was pretty skeptical at Dave's claims at first, but decided to risk buying the books for around 30 dollars all-together (pretty good deal; hundreds and hundreds of pages of really thought-provoking material). AFter reading all of them from cover to cover, I can honestly say I'm really glad I made the purchase; these are the kinds of manuals I've been looking my whole life for. Far too many books on this subject matter were just too "airy fairy" for me; I need to understand the how and why of things and all most books do is tell you about crystals and chanting and stuff like that without ever going itno actually explaining things. 

In short....everything is energy, and energy can be manipulated and changed, so basically pretty much anything is possible lol. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:02 am

Marc "Animal" MacYoung has a book out called "A Professional's Guide to Ending Violence Quickly".
I haven't read this one yet, but I rate MacYoung highly.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:36 am

Been giving this more thought, and after contemplating I have to agree with you Gauge; there is a time and a place for violence. 

The biggest two for me would be 1. When the threat is not human; like wild animals, monsters and aliens lol. 2. War. In war, there's very little to no negotiation to be had. ISIS for example has made it crystal clear they want us dead and they have strong, psycho religious faith fueling them so really, there's not much way of stopping them without some casualties. I think the goal maybe though should be capture them, lock them up and make them work for us doing all the stuff we don't want to do; like hammering license plates or making gravel roads etc; bring back the chain gangs! I miss those! ....Actually, no I don't, because I don't think they had chain gangs back in 1995 lol; at least not here. Better than just spending taxpayer money to babysit them while they pump iron and watch television lol.

But yeah; when the situation really demands it, I don't think I'd have much of a choice in the moment to use violence or lethal force if need be; my adrenaline would by skyrocketing, I'd probably be shaky, and in that moment I know from experience that everything just becomes about instinct and survival and rules start to fall away. When your enemy has no rules and can't be negotiated with, it doesn't make much sense to set rules and limitations upon yourself. Not unless you have an army next to you; I think the more people you have working for a peaceful resolution, the better chances of everyone going home safe are a lot higher; safety and security in numbers. 

--Diaperman
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:39 am

So yeah; just gonna try really really really  hard not to hurt or kill anyone lol. But if martians start flying on down and vaporizing innocent bystanders with their ray guns, then the gloves are off man; no more mister nice Diaperman! lmbo XD
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:04 am

putang ina ka marami kang alam. tumahimik ka
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:15 am

Wasn't able to translate that. Not in the mood for games.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:00 am

Don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:35 pm

Lol....okay.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:05 pm

Not wanting to hurt people is generally a good attitude.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:31 pm

Indeed....still haven't decided to officially take the vow of nonviolence. If/when I do I want to make it deep, personal/special for me. Like a ritual/private ceremony of some kind to help reinforce it. I'm just a bit conflicted on it. I love the idea of peace, but I'm scared of the violence of other creatures; from wild animals to humans to alien beings with their sights set on Earth. I really want to believe that every situation can be resolved without ever having to use violence or destruction. The only way that notion can seem feasible in my head though is if the defending party is virtually superhuman.
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PostSubject: Re: Pacification   Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:56 pm

If ethics was easy, everybody would agree...
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