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 Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)

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Faust

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PostSubject: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:23 pm

Compilation of Daredevil's fight scenes - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"Tricking" is the incorporation of acrobatics into martial arts to increase body awareness, and coordination, and is heavily used in sports like TaeKwanDo where instead of the strength of the strike, the speed is important since thanks to Newtonian Physics we know that while doubling the strength of a strike doubles the kinetic energy behind it, doubling the speed will quadruple it. In the recent and highly popular Netflix series "Daredevil", the titular character is not muscle-bound like other heroes (as opposed to his comic counterpart, but we will get to that later) and instead relies on his skill and speed to fight; this is because his fighting style is almost entirely tricking (for acrobatics/open spaces) and boxing (for follow-through/closed spaces). Even in non-fighting scenarios tricking, like parkour and free running, increase total body awareness and is greatly useful as a training tool in conditioning since it incorporates power and cardio. 
For training with tricking, I recommend taking TKD classes, but they aren't needed (although they are immensely helpful) since it can be learned at home; but before you do, your coordination and strength need to be developed with power and strength training. Box jumps and skip rope are good ways to incorporate power-cardio training, but I believe that the barbell is the most effective training tool out there and that the basic exercises needed to trick are squats (for strength/endurance) and clean & jerks (for power/coordination), and once you have developed your strength in both of these exercises tricking will be much easier for you. 
YouTube is filled with tricking examples and tutorials, but here's a basic list of different kinds of kicks used in slow motion to help you see what you will  be doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESC5v8rMro4 
While watching alone is obviously not enough to train, it is useful to let you know how to correct improper form that may hurt you while also giving you a list of different kicks to look up specifically to learn. Here is an example of a basic 540 kick that looks a lot more difficult than it really is and can be learned in a single afternoon (although strength is useful since it lets you leap higher and be therefore more impressive and acrobatic): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKcl-Cq1z5Q
Since tricking relies on strength this is a sample routine I would use purely for it: 
6 sets of 3 reps: clean & Jerks
3 sets of 20 reps: back squats 
5 sets of 2 reps: Deadlifts
3 sets of 15 reps: overhead press 
2 sets of 15 reps: incline bench press
2 sets of 20 reps: close-grip bench press 
Done 2-3 times a week
Note: this is not intended to be a full body routine for fitness, bodybuilding, or anything but tricking; it is only a foundation meant to be altered and tailored for your individual needs. Never neglect cardio or circuit training when tricking is involved, it burns up a lot of energy and makes getting winded easy.
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Blue Stranger

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:32 pm

What do you include under the term "acrobatics"? I was under the impression it was best to be wary of any maneuver that separates you from the ground or another surface (like a wall) that you can brace against and use to create leverage when shifting your own and your opponent's weight for throws and locks. You're quite vulnerable when hanging in the air, particularly against multiple opponents.
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Faust

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:36 pm

Acrobatics are feats of balance, skill, and coordination used in tandem like tricking.
You also aren't hanging, you're leaping and spinning, and like I mentioned it increases power, body awareness and speed and is used in TKD for a reason. Being vulnerable in the air is also probably why it's used to supplement skills and not as the only skill used period.
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Blue Stranger

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:24 pm

I see your point. It was actually a TKD instructor who warned me and all the other low ranked students against using a jump kick in a street situation. That day, blue belts and above were learning a particularly dangerous spinning kick--"dangerous" not only because it's effective, but because many practitioners screw up their knees doing it. The lesson was essentially "only do it if you really know what you're doing".
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Faust

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:28 pm

Basically, that's why my main martial arts are wing chun and kung fu. That and a lot of the times when people gang up on you (which they will do) it is better to be able to know how to throw a punch with only one inch of space than to throw a powerful kick with an open ring of space. That being said, it does offer the element of surprise and confusion, and can be blended into grounded techniques effectively by giving them a massive momentum boost; which is basically what we see Daredevil do throughout his Netflix series.
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Faust

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:31 pm

It also has a lot of application when dodging too, especially when I avoided a kick to the knee once by leaping over it and following through with a 540 kick; but that was in a sparring match I had rather than an actual street fight so it may not be 100% transferable there.
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Blue Stranger

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:55 pm

I've gotta say, my favorite fight scene from Daredevil is the one in the hall that they did in one take, and not only because it was amazing work on the part of the film crew and stunt guys. It's a situation with limited space, multiple opponents, objects and improvised weapons, and a huge variety of moves from boxing to throws to that flip at the end.

My favorite part of the sequence, however, is how the actor shows Daredevil's fatigue as the fight progresses, with him sagging, falling down, and leaning on the walls. Never neglect cardio indeed... That kind of routine will be difficult even for an individual who is in peak physical condition.
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Faust

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:57 pm

For tricking, and martial arts in general, I think there is no better cardio than metcons. 
Like in crossfit or military training, but ideally with good form and some weights added.
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nightmare

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:52 am

Interesting...
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:23 am

I took TKD for a couple years, so I can vouch for its usefulness, not so much in a real fight, but in body awareness.  

From that point I started learning about Jeet Kune Do, which is IMO more useful in a real fight than most other arts, simply because it is not an art as much as it is a method of finishing a fight quickly and effectively.  Of course, Bruce Lee (its creator) even had the sense to teach that such methods are not to be used in situations where weapons like knives and guns are involved.  His advice was.... RUN.
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Anyman

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:40 pm

Lee had the benefits of growing up post-Boxer Rebellion, when teachers stopped telling their students they could use Kung Fu to deflect bullets, and other such nonsense. Unarmed combat can get you through a lot of life and death situations, but it's always a last resort, especially against an armed enemy. Running may not always be an option, but no matter how good you are, or how good your style is, you can't fool yourself into thinking you're bulletproof. You will get injured; your goal should be to minimize the injury as much as possible. If you do come out of it unscathed, thank God you were lucky.
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Faust

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:03 pm

Body awareness from tricking, acrobatics, and TKD-esque fighting styles can come in handy in a fight when someone is trying to start a fight with a lot of aggressive pushing, or even throwing. Knowing how your body can move mid-air from a bunch of different angles is great for taking the advice to "roll with the punch" to the next level. 
As far as knives, learning to spar against them is always useful if you can't get away since you can have a partner use a marker to simulate the cuts of a blade so you can learn to avoid or minimize it. 
Guns on the other hand are pretty tricky. A lot of Krav Maga schools teach disarming methods and such, but all it takes is the squeeze of a finger to cause serious injury, and even if you can move faster than they can squeeze that finger you can still get hit in the shoulder or leg and end up either losing a lot of blood or getting shot a second time. 
Basically, with guns every single factor can mess you up instead of just one or two factors.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:13 am

Never cooperate with a gunman if he's standing close enough for you to take his gun away and shoot him. Don't trust that he'll just let you go.
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Equal

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:42 am

Acrobatics look good on television. It's showmanship that has little relevance in a street fight. But it can be a lot of fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:31 am

How close is close enough? Ask anyone who has trained in disarming techniques and has had to apply them in a real life situation, and they will nearly always tell you that it didn't go exactly as they trained. Close enough is determined by various factors, most of which you cannot control. You can't control the assailant's skill level or willingness to kill. You can't control their speed and you have only limited control over your own physiological reaction to having a gun pointed at you. If you feel the person will kill you, it is right to attack for survival. But most people use guns to scare people, especially when they are strangers. The odds are you will leave such an encounter shaken but alive. Studies show that people are generally bad witnesses, and criminals know this. It's part of why so few get caught relative to the number of crimes that are committed.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:45 am

It's true that most people holding you at gunpoint don't want to fire. Most, however, are probably willing to, or will do it as a panic reaction. Only attempt to disarm if you're completely sure you will succeed, OR if you believe they will fire regardless of how cooperative you are. If the man tells you he wants your money, not your life, then for godsakes give him the money.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:23 am

In most cases, "close enough" is with the barrel close enough to touch you. Instructional videos from World War II show British and American soldiers practicing disarming techniques involving getting closer to your enemy, usually by distracting them in some manner. The advice is usually to keep them focused on some sort of rapport, as you close distance. If you're far enough away, of course, it's better to look for cover, but other lives may be on the line as well. Most such disarming techniques are executed with the barrel close enough to touch you, because you're then in position to grab or strike your enemy. It also helps when your back is turned, because you can mostly feel which direction to move, to avoid a shot to the back, as opposed to trying to move out of the way when you're being shot from behind at a distance of a couple yards or so. Psychologically, if someone pulls a firearm on you, they will either shoot first, or do everything to not have to shoot; if they don't shoot first, they're relying on the firearm as a bluff, to make getting what they want easier. If you give them a chance to see you as a threat, they will probably shoot, regardless. Soldiers and police alike learn that you don't pull a weapon, unless you plan to use it, or you will lose it. Of course, they also learn that you don't pull a firearm, if you're close enough to pull a knife or swing a bat; you pull a firearm at a safe distance, exactly so you don't get it taken from you or get hurt trying to use it.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:53 am

I don't trust anything said to me by criminals. They have no right to point a gun at me. I'd rather die fighting than surrender and give into their demands. Never give in to scum. Take their gun if you can. If you have proper training then it will be easy as taking candy from a baby. Make it second nature. 

If they aren't close enough for me to grab my gun then I'll grab my gun and shoot them first. They'd already be expecting me to grab something. It just won't be my wallet.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:04 am

You can probably test this with water or paintball guns, in a way similar to the marker trick for training knife fighting.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:18 pm

Blue Stranger wrote:
What do you include under the term "acrobatics"? I was under the impression it was best to be wary of any maneuver that separates you from the ground or another surface (like a wall) that you can brace against and use to create leverage when shifting your own and your opponent's weight for throws and locks. You're quite vulnerable when hanging in the air, particularly against multiple opponents.

although true, I'm still going to keep on throwing superman punches and jumping crane style kicks.
sometimes its worth it to leave the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:12 am

You shouldn't let an armed attacker march you somewhere, he's just saving himself the trouble of carrying the body.

The Chinese had a trick in WW2 of, when marched at bayonet-point by the Japanese, pivoting on one leg to take them out of the line of fire and inside the range of the rifle to attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:57 pm

Hmmmm... interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:53 pm

Unless a person has solid experience and training in how to fight while standing, tricking is not an option to employ. If you want to learn to "trick" or do anything fancy, seek a real world, physically available instructor that can teach you (and correct you on the spot). Otherwise the discussion is theoretical at best, pure fantasy at worst.

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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:21 pm

Fascinating. Gotta study this.
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PostSubject: Re: Tricking Tutorials (or: How to fight like Daredevil and Nightwing)    Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:55 am

I'd say parkour is always a defensive option, and I'm saying parkour, not tricking, as tricking was never part of parkour, but was a part of freerunning, a corruption of the original philosophy of parkour, as was gapjumping, and I mean parkour as a means of escape if outmatched or outnumbered. It certainly lets you pick your fights, and leading an attacker away from a victim still does the job.
As far as finding a "licenced instructor", I don't think that such a thing exists for a discipline which is semi-illegal and semi-underground, nor should it. Charging money for ranks and certificates sounds like a freerunning thing, and freerunning was made to sell sportswear.
Parkour was created by people just getting out there and doing it, experimenting and exploring for themselves, and if it ever becomes regulated and restricted, it won't be parkour, or even freerunning.
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