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 Martial Arts For Fighting Crime

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Cornelius Brunner

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:31 am

Ever hear of Tony Blauer's "Panic Attacks"? That is LARPing. Exactly that, LARPing. They contextualise martial arts techniques by having students act out mugging scenarios where they don't know which of several people is the attacker. Teaches them to ride their adrenalin surge and still pay attention to what's going on around them.
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Sage

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:52 am

This is sort of an aside, but with the mention of jeans being too restrictive, I recently came upon these: http://www.centurymartialarts.com/apparel/century-kicking-jeans-blue

Though personally I HATE jeans.  Always have.  When I started wearing looser fitting clothing (sweats pants, for example) I felt much less restricted and far less vulnerable.

But back on topic... MMA seems to be the way to go if you want to protect yourself and others on the streets, though as has been said, actually seeking that out is not wise at all.  I like to quote The Matrix now and then:

Cypher wrote:
Let me give you a little advice.  You see an agent, you do what we do.  Run.  Run your ass off.
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Blue Stranger

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:32 am

I like jeans for their durability. I do find them too restrictive for my comfort when I'm training, however, so I prefer sweat pants as well. I've yet to give my tactical pants a serious test, but considering they're built for law enforcement I expect they'll be a decent compromise.
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Cornelius Brunner

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:28 pm

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Anyman

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:13 pm

"I'm happy with my martial arts training which includes karate and jujitsu. But what about you, what should you take?"

You take something simple and effective. Flashy moves are likely to get you killed.

"If your only use for martial arts is to fight criminals (an unwise decision to be sure) then you will need specific training."

Most of us will never see war, and the use of martial arts for health, while a popular option, takes into no account the reason behind martial arts training, in the first place: the most effective end to a violent situation.

"Most hand to hand methods of fighting teach you to fight other people who are ... Unarmed!"

Most of the training is against unarmed opponents, since it's hard to train realistically and safely against an armed opponent. That's not to say that most martial arts or fighting styles train you just to fight unarmed opponents.

"while a wide variety of attackers will not be unarmed, being skilled in unarmed combat does has benefits..."

That's where being skilled in unarmed combat becomes important: it's training for the worst-case scenario. It you're prepared for the worst possible scenario, imagine how well prepared you are for anything less.

"for example, simple assaults (without weapons) do happen often (especially outside of bars) and skill in unarmed combat will help you with this."

While you shouldn't rely on unarmed combat against an armed assailant, you should be able to use it in that situation, just in case.

"For armed attackers however, you will need different training. Knives can be blocked and trained for but are very dangerous."

Like I said, if you're prepared for the worst, how much better prepared are you for anything less?

"Only certain training programs like Krav Maga and marine core martial arts programs deal in depth with how to deal with knives."

That's not true. You have a plethora of different systems of Escrima, Kali, Pencak Silat, Krav Maga, Bujinkan/Genbukan/Jinenkan budo, Bartitsu, Defendu, MCMAP, UAC, Air Force Karate, etc. There's no lack of knife-training, if you don't mind sifting through styles that don't address it to get to the ones that do.

"My thoughts on knives is to wear thick clothing (or armor for those who are into that) and try to single out the hand holding the knife and take it away,"

Thick clothing will only work on slashing and slicing maneuvers, and then only to a certain extent; it does nothing to protect against stabbing. Also, you're describing an ideal situation; you should immobilize the hand with the weapon you can see, and attack the person wielding it. Taking it away is, more often than not, one of the last things you will be able to do. If you mean just disarming the assailant, that's another story altogether, but you're not actually taking it away from them then, are you?

"or if possible, grab a sizable rock and then fight with the principles taught to me in other arts."

Rock, stick, sand to the eyes, trash-can lid, whatever you can get your hands on.

"Doing things like running away can be dangerous to other citizens and yourself if you are slow, carrying a gun can be illegal in many countries and states."

Unless your assailant can throw a knife with any accuracy, running away is your first option. It's not like they can stretch their arm a few yards and stick you with their knife.

"Martial arts are really your only defence in this case."

If you can't run or talk your assailant down, sure. In any case, unless someone else's life is at stake, or you have no other option, you should always be prepared to make a run for it. At the very least, keep some distance between you and your assailant.

"let me tell you, it is hecka hard to throw anything higher than a leg kick in jeans. Track pants, sure, but most people wear jeans nowadays. Trying to throw a decent roundhouse to the body with jeans on is sure to split your pants."

You don't want to rely on high kicks in a fight, anyway; you're sacrificing balance to hit a target you can get to with your arms, and you're giving your leg to a half-way decent grappler.

"that said, the principle and skills you will learn in a martial arts class will put you ahead of somebody who has not trained martial arts in a physical confrontation."

As long as they're legit, and include a fair amount of randori, sure.

"Moni Aizik's Commando Krav Maga."

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"that's ridiculous. I am not even mentioning ninja stuff. Ever heard of the UFC? Think those UFC fighters would lose to random people on the street? How do you think they practice their skills?"

U.F.C. fighters are good at unarmed combat. Striking, grappling, ground... they know their stuff, in a controlled environment, with rules. You'll be hard-pressed to find an M.M.A. fighter, for any promotion, who actually knows legitimate knife-fighting principles, let alone can go up against a knife-fighter, unarmed.
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Cornelius Brunner

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:26 am

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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:03 am

I wonder how many fights -- real street fights -- people here have actually seen or participated in. They typically bear no resemblance to choreographed martial arts combat. I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence by saying this, just making sure we're all on the same page. In this modern age, the internet -- and more specifically, YouTube -- has become an integral part of a complete training program. When I train others, we watch and analyze hours of YouTube footage of fights recorded on phones, security cameras, police, etc. to see what common elements exist. For instance, most people tend to throw one or perhaps two lazy kicks at the beginning of a fight. Knees are more common when using the legs to strike. Wrestling moves feature prominently, many seemingly instinctual rather than honed through training. Most fights that lasted more than a couple of punches ended up on the ground. Obviously, this is not an exhaustive list of my past analyses, but you can see how we can then adapt training programs to more effectively train for realistic fight scenarios.
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Cornelius Brunner

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:39 am

Y'all need to learn about the DANG! DANG DANG! DANGETY DANGETY DANG!

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Sage

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:54 am

Well said, Guage!

(onto watching video....)
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Sage

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:58 pm

Watching Bas Rutten's video made me think of a couple Bruce Lee quotes.

Bruce Lee wrote:
"...they will teach to do this, then this, and then and then and then, before you do a single thing."

Bruce Lee wrote:
"If you try to remember you will lose."

The reason I post these is because watching Bas's video makes me think there are too many steps, and that there is too much to remember.  Not that I know better than he in the art of defending oneself, but I do understand the philosophy behind it.  He's a big guy, and I imagine he hasn't lost many fights.  For us weaklings (and I'm not accusing anyone of being such), however, all those methods may not be effective, simply because of their complexity.

My reasoning is that in a real fight, though his methods seem solid, can you flip through a mental catalog of techniques that you can apply to a certain situation?  Not likely.  As Bruce Lee said also, You see, from your thought to your fist, how much time was lost."


It has to be, as Lee once stated, unnaturally natural, or naturally unnatural.  In other words, you can't think your way out of it.  "It" has to "hit all by itself."


Yes?
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Cornelius Brunner

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:16 pm





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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:00 am

Another good reason for studying reactions of others is for manipulation. If you know that a certain action will likely cause a specific instinctive reaction, it means you have an advantage because you know where they will be vulnerable for a moment.
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Anyman

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:13 pm

The Vidocq Society's members practice, and recommend Shotokan Karate
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Cornelius Brunner

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:48 pm

Shotokan is good, but they fight too much flat-footed, from a locked hip. I've seen shotos try and throw a cross and put their back out...
On the other hand I've seen some great shotos, like Norm Robinson and Stan Schmidt from the South African JKA, and Jean-Claude Van Damme, Sho Kosugi, Lyoto Machida and Jimmy Wang Yu.

And of course Sub-Zero. I'm not sure if the ice blast and spine rip are part of Funakoshi's original system, though.
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arrowdynamic



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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:15 pm

regadless you need a striking and a grappling art.
if one is missing you are basically handicapped.
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Cornelius Brunner

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:29 am

I'd add weapons, that's often overlooked.

You know, I'm not 100% sure Wang Yu was shoto. That might have been publicity bull, like Yang Sze being a Southeast Asian shoto champ, when he was actually a power lifter and Chen style Tai Chi from the PRC. 
I've heard that Wang Yu was basically just a really agile street fighter and water polo player, and just did the choreography by rote, like David Carradine.
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Faust

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts For Fighting Crime   Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:56 pm

I'd recommend Choy Li Fut, Savate, Wing Chun and Defendu; but those are what I have the most experience in and mostly just the latter of the two at that. Savate is quick and lets you use your shoes as a weapon, Choy Li Fut turns your body into a whip and both wing chun and defendu were made for the express purpose of simplicity.
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