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 what has happened the the RLSH movement?

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Urban Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:33 pm

Some people have this idea that their way is the best way and that anyone else who does differently is wrong.

I really wish I could say I was exaggerating,  but I am not.

And those same people bully and intimidate those who call them out on their crap.

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Ace

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:08 pm

Yes but those same people dont have to be on this forum, I mean if theyre bullying others just because they do things differently, you could just warn or bann them.
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:15 pm

I understand those people are out there but think of the real world applications we can get from the forum for dealing with those people.  Just don't engage.  It's no different than a verbal barrage from a bystander you don't engage then because jumping at verbal baiting can easily make you the aggressor.  Look at it from the perspective of a training exercise, properly handling situations like that from the safety of the forum shows you the proper mindset for dealing with it on the street.  In that most of those issues will go away by ignoring it, on the street if you ignore it and they persist to escalation then you are in the right.  Same with online if you ignore them then the more aggressive they are the more wrong it makes them look.  Eventually the kind of people who insist on being right all the time will either leave or in their desperation for their opinions to be validated will adopt a less aggressive means of trying to get their views across so that they can once again have an audience.  It's basic social manipulation, Alphas (or those who perceive themselves as a Alpha) are the hardest to change individually, If you want to change the behavior of the Alpha or anyone who perceives themselves as an Alpha all you have to do is get the pack to move in a different direction, the Alpha will either run off for a place he can bully and berate people, or he will adapt and change direction so he can stay with the pack.
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Defie

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:46 pm

Let's pretend that the RLSH was a real organization as Omen has advocated; equipped with a PR staff, fully equipped dispatchers, publicists, and lawyers; all under the umbrella of a legitimate 501.C3 non-profit. That would mean that this whole organization would have to gain a hierarchical system with a clear mission statement. It would avoid a lot of members joining based on some misunderstanding of what the organization is.



Let's speculate again. If this were a true organization; not just some guys in costumes telling you they train and walk around in gear; the public, media, and the members will inevitably have to expand to bigger things; effecting change on a bigger scale. RLSH will begin to influence the world, not just for the sake of gaining more members, but effecting policy.

I believe many of the newbie members who have joined and left over a short period of time have done so based upon a realization: The goals their costume represents does not reflect this organization. Many of the fresh ideals advocated in this forum are beyond the scope of the unofficial RLSH mission statement, which basically consists of handing out sandwiches to the homeless and maybe patrolling the streets for crime at two in the morning.

Not saying that's a bad thing; not at all, but let's be honest here. There were hundreds of costumed activists who have joined this forum over the years advocating everything from a political statement to rape prevention; nearly all of whom have left the movement and the forum upon realizing the same thing I did: This organization refuses to evolve. All these great idealists with the potential to effect the change they wanted to see in the world just ending up handing out sandwiches or patrolling street corners and being forgotten; having wasted their time trying to fit in and accomplishing none of their own goals as a result.

I believe most of the young blood of this forum join under he misguided impression that the RLSH is a real organization; a hive that would allow them to contribute to something greater than themselves, while giving their own advocated issues a spotlight commensurate to their contribution. That doesn't happen here. This is just a message board, complete with the same bickering and in-fighting you would find anywhere else on the internet.

I think that the bulk of this website's members have left the relic of this website behind in favor of real costumed activism, and the ones here are only left for what little information and advice this site can divulge from time to time.

The RLSH - as a community - is beginning to crumble, with only the veterans left at the mantle as the web this thing once represented falls a part. If it can be saved, there is only one place to make it happen: HERE. TheRLSH.net would need to really be THErlsh.net, not CostumedActivistsOnAMessageBoardEveryOnceInAWhile.net. The RLSH would have to be an Organism and this website would have to be the hub of it; not some other website with some other name. The mission statement, the qualifications, profiles, and recruitment would have to be here, embedded into this website. From there, some of you may have to consider organizing the "RLSH" for real this time.

Just throwing that out there.
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:35 pm

I'm down with speculation.  Your speculation though seems to only favor the opinions and input of these "veterans".  With something like the RLSH movement feels like a more individually focused and motivated movement.  I just see something like that as being a little to exclusive a little to much elitism.  I feel that the voices of new members would be drowned out if the movement became an organization.  But it is an interesting theory and I think it would work on maybe a city by city basis, several small organizations that are in contact so that rules and policies can be set for their own special circumstances local and state laws alone would negate the effectiveness of a general organization because it would be pointless.  It would be issuing rules and policies that wouldn't even be able to apply  for half the groups across the country.  Unless legislation was passed that got all the states to agree on a uniform set of self defense and good Samaritan laws than I really don't think a single large organization is what the movement needs.
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Adsum



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:52 am

The problem is, it isn't an organization. It is individuals doing what they think is best. And a lot of people can handle that, and a lot can't. 

The ones who can't handle it, unfortunately tend to be the ones who set the overall image. Media very rarely tries to spread good news, because it doesn't sell. But suddenly there is a guy in a costume, going about it the entire wrong way, and the media reports it. 

The issue is that, there are no repercussions for the person doing things wrong. There is no leader, because everyone is making a personal choice to do this in their way. Someone could come up with rules, but what would govern those rules? 

All crime fighting organizations have set rules they must follow. RLSH isn't a crime fighting organization.

All charity groups have set rules they must follow. RLSH isn't a charity group.

RLSH is individuals trying to make changes in the way they see as the best way. Some people will come together and work well. Often these teams will have set rules to be part of the team. If someone goes out of line, they can be kicked off the team, but what other repercussions are there? They can still put on their costume and walk around doing whatever they want. It's the same reason that there isn't a leader. 

At this point, I would wonder if there would ever even be a possibility to create a true organization out of it. What, in the end, would govern it?
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:14 pm

See that's what I always saw the RLSH as Medic, as motivated individuals a few groups formed and that's great but the rest are so spread out and independent that it never seemed like a movement that the institution of a central organization would work.  Organize a resource and information group for them to use but not to set guidelines with that's what I always thought the forums were for just to get information and experience out there to help the folks who are trying to make a difference
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omen

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:28 pm

Here is the challenge to NOT formalizing in to an organization with rules…

Evolution.

While history can be shaped and interpreted, true history can’t lie. It can be learned from.

In any gathering with 3 people or more and a given task, a leader will emerge.

Humans are social creatures. We can embrace our individuality for a while, but sooner or later we cherish the opportunity to share and learn with and from others. RLSHs are no different, that's why those who scream and shout that they’re individuals and don’t need leadership, still find places to meet others and share their opinions with others.

The problem is often… when their opinions are challenged and it is something they believed in deeply.

Example:

RLSH-Individual: “I carry a taser, dress in black, and wear a demon mask. I hide in the shadows, evade the cops, and use fear as a weapon against drug-dealers when I encounter them.”

RLSH-Humanitarian: “Uh, dude, what you’re talking about doesn’t help the movement. You’re stalking and scaring people. Why do you have the taser? Are you helping the community?

RLSH-Individual: “I search out evil and pacify it. I taser drug-dealers and escape into the shadows. As for the movement, I don’t care about the movement, I serve a greater purpose. The community knows that I am protecting them.”

RLSH-Humanitarian: “To me, it sounds like ASSAULT. How do you KNOW these guys are drug-dealers? Who made you judge and jury? What about law enforcement?”

RLSH-Individual: “I know their drug-dealers and I know what I’m doing. I don’t need you to tell me what you think is right or wrong. What I’m doing is right! As for the cops, they’re a joke! They’re corrupt, you can’t trust them. This community needs me and feeding homeless people isn’t going to help. So screw you. Tonight, I’ll stop another one, what will YOU be doing?”


Now, how do you rationalize with an individual such as this??  You can’t.

There are a TON of these type of individuals on the forum. They care about gadgets, weapons, armor, martial arts, and butt-kicking FAR more than they do about understanding law, medicine, culture, history, and the arts.

If you want proof… look at the forum’s main subjects and the amount of posts in each one.

REAL: something that is true, factual, and exist

LIFE: A state of existence that is the core opposite of non-existence, separated by time

SUPER: Above the norm, to the highest degree of power. Of superior quality

HERO: An individual of distinguished courage and ability; admired for brave deeds, noble qualities, and respect for others through law, culture, beliefs, and/or principles.

The truth is simply this… NO, it should NOT be easy to be a RLSH!

It should be more than being inspired and throwing on a costume with a mask to hide your personal issues! It should be something that is proven and earned!! This is why peers, organization, and leadership is CRITICAL!

Does is have to be one main organization? No. But it should be organized.

Look at some of the people that have claimed the title RLSH. There were no standards to stop them from claiming it. Some of these can’t see that Police Officers, Fireman, Soldiers, Marines, Artists, Writers, Doctors, Teachers, and even more are the TRUE RLSHs. Instead, they actually think that they are and they’ve earned… NOTHING!

They can argue on a forum. Poke fun at others that may not be as smart. They can giggle at handicaps, and spit on the veteran heroes, and yet they can’t see themselves in the mirror no matter how hard they look.

A name that is given is often worth a few dollars less than a title that is earned.

To me, 'RLSH' is nothing more than a caption that can be glued onto your shirt like a, ‘Hello. My name is…” label similar to ones you see at training conferences, if you don't have a method to filter out those that don't deserve it and/or not willing to respect the laws and boundaries that have been put into place for a reason.  

Individuals will ALWAYS argue the struggle to earn a title.

Those who are truly willing to sacrifice, will embrace this struggle and take the bruises that come with it.

-Omen, “Heroes aren’t made during good times!” –The Elite Forces Division
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:08 pm

I have to disagree, individuals don't struggle to earn a title unless a framework that gives out titles is available, trying to organize what is essentially an individual effort will cause the infighting and what not that you say took down the movement in the first place.  An organization would only work if a common specific goal and methods could be devised but because of the area that the members of this forum encompass is so large there are just to many laws and jurisdictions that change from one spot to the other that at best you could only establish very general guidelines for conduct which just don't work for an efficient unit or organization.  You are a Marine you served during an era of conflict just as i did, I give more weight to what you say because of a shared background and understanding.  I agree with you that a leader will always emerge for good or ill, but that does not mean that the forums need a leader.  They need rules and referees but not someone to arbitrarily hand out the title hero.  How can a complete stranger who has never met an individual to take their measure hand out the titles then?  With never meeting a person their worth can only be measured based on their contributions to the forum if they are helpful and give sound advice and debate in a respectful manner then they are worth keeping around.  Who cares who claims the title, the title is empty and has no meaning, those who help people to earn a title are only helping themselves.  I'm just saying that a large scale organization could not tend to the needs of a group like this that is so scattered.  The best we can do is give advice when we have it, share our knowledge and experience, and help them come up with a plan of action that works for their mission specs and in their AO.
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omen

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:52 am

What you wrote is absolutely fair to consider, from this, a healthy debate should be welcomed. It seems that you have two distinct topics that we should seek to address:

1. The forum
2. RLSHs

I agree with many of the things you wrote about the forum. I just want to be clear that my comments about the forum were directed toward the in-fighting and sarcasm. I agree with your aspect on the forum and leadership.

The forum doesn’t need a leader, it is a community designed to share knowledge, experiences, and advice (of course, it’s not limited to those things only). In reference to this line of thinking, the forum invites individuals as much as leaders, and followers. It is merely a hub.

As for Real Life Superheroes in theory and action…

In theory, ‘Real Life Superheroes’ is a title, and as you said, “Who cares who claims the title, the title is empty and has no meaning.” This is exactly what those who have fought to bring value to it fear. In the last few years, we’ve had RLSHs injured and killed over their actions while associated with this ‘empty’ title.

While it means something to me, because I’ve been with this community for a while… ultimately, you are correct once again, because technically, the title means nothing to those who do not know or care about the history of it.

I respect RLSH, but I always make sure to let others know that I am not a RLSH.

I am a Marine. I know what previous Marines have gone through and sacrificed for that title. I earned it and my brothers and sisters-in-arm have earned it. I know how I would personally feel if someone woke up one day, purchased our uniform, threw some medals on their chest, and went out and claimed the title of United States Marine.

It would enrage me inside, but once again, you are technically correct… that people can do this.

The reason I push for organization on some level is because, actions taken by an individual that have impact on others is not a problem. Dress up, mask up, and/or cosplay… there is no harm in this if you seek enjoyment and entertainment.

When you affect the lives of others… things become serious. I’m not only talking about crime-fighters, I’m talking about everything. If a ‘Humanitarian’ RLSH gave out brown bags of food in which some of it was, bad, poisoned, or whatever… what impact would this have on the local community, the victims, and the other RLSHs.

Who is going to stop the RLSH that works at KFC and hands out the leftover chicken at the end of the night, not knowing whether or not its spoiled or good?

What about the crime-fighters that inject themselves into police stings and operations?

What of the crime-fighters using illegal techniques with recording devices or trespassing?

Who’s to stop them if they go too far with stalking, surveillance, detainment, fear, arrogance, entrapment, baiting, etc.?

What about the RLSHs that drink alcohol on patrol? As shown on the documentary.

Have mental issues or lack of self-control? The Bee-Sting issue?

Infidelity? Lethal assaults? Stealing from those they target?

My point is this…

I have NO problem at all with RLSHs doing what they feel is right without oversight, as long as it does NOT impact others. The game ends, when others are involved… this drives their choices and actions into something serious.

Organization allows ACCOUNTABILTY and RESPONSIBILTY which was a BIG topic on the old forum. Those of us that were on there remember when we had an earthshaking debate on this. The post went for pages and pages and it led to our exploration and defining of the 3 Superhero Characterizations:

The Hero
The Antihero
The Vigilante

This became SO large, that my publishing company created an anthology based on this. In fact, a couple of the stories in it were based on RLSHs and the things that they have gone through. I merged their stories with fantasy to keep things light, but the actual feedback we have been receiving from ALL over the world has been phenomenal!

The book is titled: New Legends: The Hero, The Antihero, & The Vigilante

I might have a copy of my Accountability and Responsibility post from the old forum. If I can find it, I will try to post it here.

-Omen
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One Tin Soldier



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:30 am

Was just skimming this thread and it gives me the opportunity to ask about something I've been noticing ever since I joined here.  I took some of my inspiration from Michael Barnett's "Superheroes" documentary which features many of the 20 colorful characters pictured at the top of the page on this site, some of whom are listed as members.  I was looking forward to corresponding with them when I joined.  But where are they?  (Plus I really admired Mr. Xtreme in the film and he's not even in the picture.)  I hope most of those guys (and gals) are still out there doing their thing.

I do like that amongst the core group that seems most active here on this forum there is for the most part respect, and never have I seen anyone make fun of someone else's RLSH name.  I think that should be a rule.  If an RLSH wants to call himself Mr. Goofy or God's Gift to Women or whatever, I say welcome aboard.  After all, one of the earliest of us was called Captain Sticky.
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One Tin Soldier



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:57 am

Posted my previous post only after skimming page one, then realized there was a page two which got a little more intense.  I am a newcomer (though I am not young) and was not around for previous hostile interactions that might have taken place here.  I can only speak for myself.  I find the ideals of comic book superheroes to be right and true, and found myself having great admiration for a movement that is essentially a form of neighborhood watch that adopts not only those ideals but also the look of those characters as an homage to what they stand for.  Part of my "origin story" is that I once saw an assault taking place as I was driving and I did not stop, while the very next car behind me did, and I will feel bad about that as long as I live and  have vowed that it will never happen again.  I go out now and patrol the areas of my community where people drink too much and get rowdy, where sometimes people get hurt.  I'm new at it, but it's a learning experience, to attune oneself to the sounds and rhythms of the night and listen and feel for that one thing that doesn't sound like normal revelry, something where someone might need help at a second's notice when the police are minutes away.  I feel that's the contribution I can make, and I've looked into the laws about wearing masks and carrying weapons and citizen's arrests, etc.  They can be confusing and hard to understand, but I do the best I can.  Is the RLSH movement dying out?  Well I certainly hope not, but for my part consider me plus one.
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GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:39 am

Well, if this is the case with the community, perhaps it was not a bad thing.

I see the large scale inactivity as a cull. The current active ones seem to be a pretty good, stable group. Smaller, but overall a good group. I've read through some long, involved topics that would have turned to flaming in other places. Here, there's good avid discussion. 

It looks like the worst and best dropped out of this community. Hopefully the best kept doingtheir thing, and are operating independently of the community. They may come back eventually. 

I hope to worst were simply trolls, and stay away for good.
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:28 am

I was unaware that the title of RLSH carried any weight.  I was under the impression that it was a media coined term and that people here were simply using it to describe the movement in general (comparing it to the title of Marine may be a little extreme but I get your point).  The title I was referring to was simply that of Hero.  And you are right it is a title that is given and should not be claimed, and by calling it an empty title....here we go Omen.   When we were in uniform and we returned from combat duty back to the states, and we would be seen out in public in our uniforms and folks would call us Heroes and shake our hands and buy us drinks and what not.  That is the empty title I speak of.  We KNOW we were not the heroes, the real ones weren't there to get the back slaps and free drinks so we accept it for them, we nod and smile and say thank you tell them it wasn't a big deal we were just doing our job.  I should have elaborated better about the title being empty to me and not for everyone.

As you said the discussion is focused on two point, the movement itself and the forums I agree.  It seems we are both  on the same page as far as the Forums, the only divergence seems to be on the movement itself.  The examples you gave are all covered under actual laws though.  Further hammering in the fact that any private activities that individuals in this movement perform must still work within the existing structure of law.  Simply setting standards of don't be a criminal to stop crime is not really a unifying goal.  It's good advice but local law enforcement will handle those issues not the movement, now having privileges and standing stripped away as well is fine but I'm still on the fence as to the validity of the hypothetical organization.  I agree there is a need for standards and even perhaps a loose code of conduct to claim participation in the movement, but even that point is moot because the media will lump all activity performed by people dressed up in hero costumes into the same category.  Now what I'm about to say next upsets me just as much as it should anyone, but here it is.  The fact is in this day and age being selfless and helping other people is deviant behavior.  I say deviant in that it deviates from the normal behavior of ignoring it and moving on.
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:01 am

GreyWolf wrote:
I've read through some long, involved topics that would have turned to flaming in other places. Here, there's good avid discussion. 

And this is what I would love to see throughout the RSLH movement (of which I am also new).  Just a community of like minded individuals providing information, support, and constructive criticism.  Omen and I may have differing opinions, but we respect for each others desire to serve and help others and from this common ground can have a civil and informative discussion.  We are not trying to brow beat each other into coming in line with our differing opinions but instead trying to show our perspective on the issue being discussed, the more we understand why each of us feels the way we do the better we can accept the others view point.  It does not mean that we will ever agree on the final answer but if we both understand were the other is coming from and has understood what we each are saying then we can at least respect each other for making an INFORMED decision.
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the0ne

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:33 am

the thing is IMO everyone who chooses to be a rlsh has different reasons for it could be comics movies personal experiences or beliefs doesnt matter what the foundation was but the majority do it to help their fellow man, animals, or anything else. Granted there are probably small amount of people who start this life with the intention of personal gain but ignoring that fact i feel that along the road people forget why they chose to put on a suit (or not ) and make a difference. They lose focus on the main idea like persuing a dream you work hard at making it a reality and spend time producin it and when you finally make it come true you lose the drive and ambition to keep it going because you already have it. As for the batman idea i see it like this
everyone wants to be batman: fight crime be a hero be known and just out there doing something but then they realize its not all crime fighting drug busting and suddenly their is no rush and they slowly drift away... the point being that wasnt want batman was about. It wasnt to make anyone put on a costume and stop evil (though the outfit makes it much more fun) it was about an idea to be an inspiration to start a chain reaction that maby just maby more people can be motivated start helping others out to and stick to their idea not for personal gain or recognition but to do whats right and help anyone in need because its the right thing to do. well thats my 2 cents goodnight
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omen

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:44 am

As promised... I have found some of our Archived Posts from the old RLSH website which was when we into the topics of forming a Superhero Organization. This was years ago, but it is still a very interesting read.

Please feel free to view it and leave comments..

Here is the direct link: http://www.visadj.com/board/16/real-life-superheroes

It is located on our forum (www.VisAdj.com) >> in the CHAT topic area >> in the Real Life Super Heroes section at the top.

-Ed
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:52 pm

Thanks Omen for the info, it's good to be able to look back years later and reevaluate the current situation.
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The Northman

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:17 am

I can't speak for anyone else, but as fay as I'm concerned being an RLSH is in my heart. It isn't on this forum or in a movement. I'm posting about every patrol I do and the exact thoughts that I have as I do them to motivate and give experience to others. The community in return gives me encouragement and advice that would be impossible to get else where.
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:12 am

I feel the same. "The Movement" doesn't matter to me, if there was never such a thing as "The RLSH" I still would have ended up becoming a superhero.
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The Northman

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:17 am

Hero-Man wrote:
I feel the same. "The Movement" doesn't matter to me, if there was never such a thing as "The RLSH" I still would have ended up becoming a superhero.

Them's the words.
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nightmare

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:30 am

@john You know that it wasnt possible. And i guess you already know that i have a quirky sense of humor. It's just a metaphor and it wasnt possible.
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themarine



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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:03 pm

True individual action is paramount as is that individuals intentions but the existence of a movement or organization filled with like minded people just makes it easier.  Even if you never see another RLSH just knowing that you are not the only person who cares enough to act is both uplifting and fortifying.
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kiddo karasu77

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:42 am

themarine wrote:
I've been looking over the site and pouring over the web and most of the stuff is old.  Most of the members here haven't been on in over a year, websites are closed down, support groups have withdrawn support.  Who is left out there, why did so many drop out?  Where is the RLSH movement?  Are we it?
brother i have no idea all i know is that everyone is either busy or  become villins themselves i hope not anyway stay strong -peace-
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kiddo karasu77

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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:45 am

the0ne wrote:
the thing is IMO everyone who chooses to be a rlsh  has different reasons for it could be comics movies personal experiences  or beliefs doesnt matter what the foundation was but the majority do it to help their fellow man, animals, or anything else. Granted there are probably small amount of  people who start this life with the intention of personal gain but ignoring that fact i feel that along the road people forget why they chose to put on a suit (or not ) and make a difference.   They lose focus on the main idea like persuing a dream you work hard at making it a reality and spend time producin it and when you  finally make it come true you lose the drive and ambition to keep it going because you already have it. As for the batman idea i see it like this
everyone wants to be batman: fight crime be a hero be known and just out there doing something but then they realize its not all crime fighting  drug busting and suddenly their is no rush and they slowly drift away... the point being that wasnt want batman was about. It wasnt to make anyone put on a costume and stop evil (though the outfit makes it much more fun) it was about an idea to be an inspiration to start a chain reaction that maby just maby more people can be motivated  start helping others out to and stick to their idea not for personal gain or recognition but to do whats right and help anyone in need because its the right thing to do. well thats my 2 cents goodnight
u said some good things .
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PostSubject: Re: what has happened the the RLSH movement?   

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what has happened the the RLSH movement?
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