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 Oxycotin Gone Open Source

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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:13 am

Greetings All!

I read in a local paper earliler last month that this drug was going "open source" and that the biggest fear was that it would open up a whole host of folks with little to no medical or government system-based education or training, trying out new concoctions to put out on the streets.


Has anyone to date come in contact with any experiences in this field?

What kind of intel would be wise to look out for, for people tripping out on some of these estranged cocktails?

Does anyone here have first-hand experience interacting with various people who have had past (or do currently have) tendencies to OD on these things?


My only interaction with a crazy dude was as an innocent bystander...where I was powerless to de-escalate the situation at the time. (The only thing I could do was run into a nearby bar and tell the bartender to call the cops, which he did.)


I don't ever want to see anyone in my fair city experiencing that kind of thing. Nor do I ever want to feel powerless to stop that kind of thing ever again, myself.




Thanks and all the best!!





~HS. :>
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Rook

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:43 am

My main area of clinical practice was first substance abuse, then chronic pain. Typically, you''ll see some normal, transient reactions such as sedation, and mild to moderate CAN depression (lower heart rate and breathing). in the case of this, as with most opiate medications, an overdose is kind of an exaggeration of the normal effect. Sedation becomes coma, decreased heart rate and breathing becomes a cessation of those functions, and of course death. Kidney failure sometimes occurs as well.

Naltrexone (Trexan) is a competitive opiate antagonist that can reverse an overdose and bring someone back fairly quickly. It can also trigger withdrawal symptoms, however.

abuse of this drug is most often oral, though crushing the pills and snorting them is popular, also. I've worked with folks who've dissolved the crushed pills in water an injected the solution as well.

Look for disoriented, lethargic individuals. If they appear asleep, check their lips for a healthy color (a blue tinge often means poor oxygenation and thus, a possible overdose). You're not likely to gain access to injectable naltrexone (and should be a trained professional to administer it anyway), but it is pretty standard fare in the ambulances. In some areas, police carry the stuff as well.

- Rook
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:09 am

Rook wrote:
My main area of clinical practice was first substance abuse, then chronic pain. Typically, you''ll see some normal, transient reactions such as sedation, and mild to moderate CAN depression (lower heart rate and breathing). in the case of this, as with most opiate medications, an overdose is kind of an exaggeration of the normal effect. Sedation becomes coma, decreased heart rate and breathing becomes a cessation of those functions, and of course death. Kidney failure sometimes occurs as well.

Naltrexone (Trexan) is a competitive opiate antagonist that can reverse an overdose and bring someone back fairly quickly. It can also trigger withdrawal symptoms, however.

abuse of this drug is most often oral, though crushing the pills and snorting them is popular, also. I've worked with folks who've dissolved the crushed pills in water an injected the solution as well.

Look for disoriented, lethargic individuals. If they appear asleep, check their lips for a healthy color (a blue tinge often means poor oxygenation and thus, a possible overdose). You're not likely to gain access to injectable naltrexone (and should be a trained professional to administer it anyway), but it is pretty standard fare in the ambulances. In some areas, police carry the stuff as well.

- Rook

Sweet! Thanks so much for the info, Rook!


I'll keep the stuff I understood in mind (and what I didn't, I'll PM you about, if that's cool).


Cheers & thanks again! Cool \m/


All the best,



~HS. :>
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Rook

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:02 am

Rook wrote:
...and mild to moderate CAN depression (lower heart rate and breathing).

Sorry about that, folks. My spellcheck must have gotten overzealous. It's supposed to say "...mild to moderate CNS depression..." (as in Central Nervous System).

-Rook
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:48 am

Rook wrote:
Rook wrote:
...and mild to moderate CAN depression (lower heart rate and breathing).

Sorry about that, folks. My spellcheck must have gotten overzealous. It's supposed to say "...mild to moderate CNS depression..." (as in Central Nervous System).

-Rook

No worries, mate! Cool

Out of curiosity though, what do you know to be the difference between "CNS Depression" and (regular?) depression?

Aren't both significantly affected and controlled by neurochemical pathways?


Cheers & thanks!



~HS.
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Rook

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:03 pm

Clinical depression is a kind of mood disorder characterized by sadness, sleep disturbance, decreased engagement in things you'd otherwise feel pleasurable, etc.

CNS depression is simply a lowered activity of your central nervous system in general. It slows down (depresses) your functioning, but doesn't necessarily lead to emotional (clinical) depression.

-Rook
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Rook

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:37 pm

As far as neurochemistry goes, CNS depression can be caused by a few things, most notably opiate and GABA.neurotransmitters. OC works primarily on the opiate system and other downers (e.g, benzodiazepines such as Valium) work on GABA.

We're largely unsure as to the neurochemical basis of clinical depression, though. The most prevalent model currently holds that there may be an imbalance in a certain class of neurotransmitters called monoamines (dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine) may be related, this is the basis of most anidepressant medications.

-Rook
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Superman

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:44 pm

All this talk about drugs and not 1 smarmy comment by a 204 incarnation. Urban Avenger must have finally plugged all the security holes. Congratulations UA I know he was a thorn in your side.

Superman cheers cheers cheers
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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:34 pm

Oxy is a major problem here. We have tons of pill mills that distribute
from each clinic to dealers and vermin nationwide, and guys coming in
from God knows where to pick up the pills and sell them out of state as
well.

This is the rich kids crack, and while it has some legitimate use, more
often than not it is found in the hands of those who shouldn't have it
in their possession. Addictive with long term damage, there's another
valid reason to keep the war on drugs running. The same reasons that
illegitimate drugs should be barred from legalization are the same
reasons why anyone selling these things as they do should have their
balls kicked well up into their stomachs.

These are legal. Legal narcotics still have these problems. They still
have a black market because fools want to down them like candy! Without
the black market, they would do far worse! The less than wealthy people
will still steal because they run out of money to pay their connection
for their high. These pills can still kill or do serious damage, either
through a one time overdose or cumulatively, because people will still
want to tune in, turn off and drop out, regardless of their legal
status!

Legalizers and decriminalizers, put that in your crack pipe and smoke it!
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hiddensparrow

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:43 pm

Leviathan wrote:
Oxy is a major problem here. We have tons of pill mills that distribute
from each clinic to dealers and vermin nationwide, and guys coming in
from God knows where to pick up the pills and sell them out of state as
well.

This is the rich kids crack, and while it has some legitimate use, more
often than not it is found in the hands of those who shouldn't have it
in their possession. Addictive with long term damage, there's another
valid reason to keep the war on drugs running. The same reasons that
illegitimate drugs should be barred from legalization are the same
reasons why anyone selling these things as they do should have their
balls kicked well up into their stomachs.

These are legal. Legal narcotics still have these problems. They still
have a black market because fools want to down them like candy! Without
the black market, they would do far worse! The less than wealthy people
will still steal because they run out of money to pay their connection
for their high. These pills can still kill or do serious damage, either
through a one time overdose or cumulatively, because people will still
want to tune in, turn off and drop out, regardless of their legal
status!

Legalizers and decriminalizers, put that in your crack pipe and smoke it!

Hi Lev,

Thank you for your input.

Have you by any chance run into anybody hepped up on any of these concoctions?

I know it's hard to tell what people smoke/snort/shoot/etc. to create the insanity in their minds that they dish out.

You mentioned it was a "problem".

What has so far to date been your best solution with regards to dealing with certain folks involved in these trades?

I know one strategy has been to become friends with some of them, so you can understand their lingo, way of life, etc.

If not erred with caution though, that might bring up its own entirely different can of worms.

If you have been able to, how have you managed to help intercept trafficking of said "candies" ?

Would you find that psychological tactics are more effective than physical ones (on average) with these folk because of their constant need for psychological stimulation?

I am deeply fascinated about hearing your experiences.


Thanks and all the best,




~HS.
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Leviathan

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:01 pm

I've found the best way to deal with someone like this is not being their friend, but harsh interdiction. Sometimes, tough love is te best kind.

There are some laws on the books to kill the pill mills, but they're only as effective as the people handing in the information to bust them. Police have ready access to the pharmacies databases on an ask-only basis.

I heard about the problem some years ago when it started with Rush Limbaugh (someone I've had the opportunity to meet once) and on occasion people tried to get me started on them for multiple reasons.

So far, I've managed to handle one oxy seller. It turns out that several months ago there was a man hanging out in front of a CVS on a street corner on almost a daily basis. He was getting his supply from that same CVS on Orange Blossom Trail. He was also handling the sales in broad daylight with multiple drive-by purchases per day. Managed to get him on video, descriptions of some of his customers and their vehicles with tags. When I handed the information I had, they busted him the next day, and the guy was on the news for two. CVS has been more careful since then.
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Rook

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PostSubject: Re: Oxycotin Gone Open Source   Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:18 pm

Leviathan wrote:
So far, I've managed to handle one oxy seller. It turns out that several months ago there was a man hanging out in front of a CVS on a street corner on almost a daily basis. He was getting his supply from that same CVS on Orange Blossom Trail. He was also handling the sales in broad daylight with multiple drive-by purchases per day. Managed to get him on video, descriptions of some of his customers and their vehicles with tags. When I handed the information I had, they busted him the next day, and the guy was on the news for two. CVS has been more careful since then.

Nicely done.

In my experience, those with a serious substance problem very rarely seek help on their own. I"ve treated literally hundreds of cases and I must say that those abusing pain pills are among the hardest to work with due to the consistent rationalizations (and many actually do need the pills that they are abusing...just not in the way they're using them). In all of the patients I've worked with, only one came in on his own steam. Everyone else was "My wife made me come in or she'll leave me, My boss made me come in or he'll fire me" or...the most common (and most effective for treatment in my experience) "The courts made me come in *and* do regular drug screenings or I'll go to jail/violate probation/other wholly unpleasant legal consequence."

It's unfortunate in many cases that in the US, the most frequent referral to mental health services is the criminal justice system. If you want someone to get off drugs, the very harsh truth is that they should probably be arrested and substance abuse treatment made part of the terms of probation.

-Rook
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